Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns The FBI shoot Out In Miami 1986

Okay, it's not accurate to THAT level of detail. The Hollywood factor kicks in as to how many rounds were fired, and the insertion of the AC556 where there should have been a Mini 14. But overall, how the cars interacted, how they ended up, who was where, who was hit, and where, the use/non-use of cover, etc. All of that was accurate and gave a good general depiction of the shootout. For Hollywood, it was pretty damned good, but at the end of the day, the purpose of the movie was to entertain, not to document.

I just missed one of these the other day. I walked in a gunshop and they were selling it for $400 it was NIB. I damn near cryed. I think they go for about 1k on gunbroker.

Dink

Spot-on.

Then that is the way it should be looked at...as entertainment based on an incident and that is all... The real shame is if the studio had just done the short chase, firefight and all the rest as accurately as it could have been reconstructed it would have been just as entertaining and dramatic.

Some people wonder why the .38 Special round from McNeil's didn't do a better job on Matix. If you have The Forensic Analysis of the fierfight, on page 25 I think there is the answer. I don't think from the recovered piece of bullet from Matix's sinus is whole in that McNeil hit him directly...I think the bullet hit the window frame of the drivers door and then a piece of the bullet hit Matix in the temple. Otherwise why is the rest of the bullet missing...then of course there is the question of "where did the evidence disappear to" after it was cataloged and photographed the bullet fragment disappeared.....

I've have studied this firefight in detail since shorty after it happened. I was able to collect some tapes from academies that had some of the agents for guest speakers. The more you listen the more unanswered questions there are....

Bob

I kinda maybe recall it. Kinda one of those...see my above post.

The Mustang was made for a long time. Lots of people thought highly of it. Colt churned out quite a few pistolas that didn't save them. Some were quite good. I never knew Double Eagles were so reviled until the recent thread. The All American 9 was highly touted by gunwriters back in the day. I never owned one though.

But yes, I bought the first Magnum Carry I saw and gave it to my wife, then selling her Detective Special. Her first gun was a 7/8 scale New Frontier 22/22 Mag., that she still has. I then bought her one of those 357/9mm combo Blackhawks with faux Pearl grips. That was replaced by a Charter Off Duty which was superceded by the Detective Special.

I've been in some shixt before and it's difficult to remember later what exactly went down after it hit the fan. You start trying to remember and it's like trying to recall a dream-maybe you dreamt it and maybe your mind is making it up right now and you think you dreamt it.

Totally different missions. A graduate of Army Special Forces school is not necessarily better equipped to go into a straight-up battle than an Army Ranger. Fight a counter-insurgency and blend in with the indig population-very much so, but fight a conventional fight? I don't think so.

I think the bullet degraded in the facial bone as I have seen done in the hunting fields on many occasions

Kevin,
I remembered it being a semi auto mini also, thanks for clearing that up.

I am in full agreement with 41magfan, it wasn't a failure of hardware.
In fact, I attended a 5 day course run by a federal organization which used this shootout as the model for the mindset they wanted us students to adopt. Of course, when they're talking about mindset they meant Platt & Matix, not the good guys.
Mireles was the only agent about which they had good things to say.

Pete

I think the lessons for that incident are many. Still, I think there was a failure in their hardware and that was an issue, not the issue. A .45 could have made a difference, or maybe not all depends on which load they chose. Back in �86, the Silvertip was THE market leader, and had they had .45�s with Silvertips, it�s doubtful the 185 grain Silvertip would have penetrated any deeper, or perhaps not even as deep as the 9mm version. Regardless, its� all water under the bridge; but the lesson is, you need a certain amount of penetration to get the job done in all situations.

Tactics were horrible, and that probably had more to do with the outcome of the fight than any other single issue. Their adversaries were highly motivated, well trained, and capitalized on the FBI�s somewhat lack of mindset (with some exceptions), tactics and abilities. The tactics of the two assailants were much better, they were better armed, they used their weapons with superior effectiveness and somewhat predictably did a lot of damage.

That incident shined the light on the importance of the projectile, and the lifelong wounds of those FBI agents, as well as the lives of two of them were the inspiration towards excellence in all aspects of firearms training and equipment. We�re all the better for it.

At the time of the incident, the agents were armed with very good equipment. The FBI .38 Special load is still THE benchmark load in that caliber. The 9mm Silvertip remains an excellent performer for personal defense, but penetrates insufficiently for LE use. The S&W revolvers were excellent. And while I�ve always felt the S&W 59 was one of the poorer DA 9mm�s, they all worked as they were supposed to that day. I can�t remember if they had Rem 870�s or Ithaca 37�s, but the 870 is well proven and the 37 if anything is even better; both are still very viable choices today.

The wound to Mireless's arm causing him to hold the shotgun between his legs to work the action is also a lesson learned. This incident caused many agency's to see the benefits of a semi auto shotgun

Everyone has to remember that there was really only one bad guy in this in fight. If Matix would have stayed in this fight with Platt they would have probaly killed every FBI agent that day.

In my opinion the plain and simple facts are the FBI knew they were after armed men that had shot people in the past and figured that when they yelled FBI they would give up. After they got shot to pieces did they start the "we knew how dangerous they were" bullchit. I think they knew they were dangerous but thought they would give up and planned on them giving up.

I can't imagine going after two guys armed with long guns and having shotguns and rifles available and only taking a pistol. That just does not make any sense to me (or anyone else).

Dink

certainly no LEO here, just have a strong hunting background.


and even though I often disagree with you and don't like how you put things Dink what you say here rings true with me.

if the job calls for a hammer, bring a big hammer.

imo a handgun is what you use because of it's portability/concealability till you can get to your rifle or or shotgun.

if I'm "invited" to a gunfight, I'm bringing a rifle or shotgun.

If the agents had all been issued 45 ACP even will 230 ball ammo the fire fight would have ended quickly. If agent Dove's hit on Platt ass he was exiting through the window would have been with the 45 230 grain FMJ the bullet would have penetrated deeply enough to have destroyed the heart and 30 to 45 seconds is all that Platt could have functioned. The hit on Matrix under the left eye would have take out his spinal column at the neck junction and game over

Wasn't the FBI carrying 1911s during the Prohibition era?

The Shot Dove made on Platt was luck according to alot of people that are supposed to be in the "know". Would he have made that lucky shot with a 45? When %20 of the guys in FBI lost thier service pistols before the fight even began you are already having pretty chitty luck.

I have looked at this fight many times and from many different perspectives and it all boils down to the same thing. Those guys did not focus on thier front sights and make good hits. Even with pistols this fight should have ended pretty quickly with all the agents that were on scene. (yes I know thats easy to say when I am not the one that had bullets flying at my azz but in reality their lives depending on them making hits.)

Dink

In my humble opinion, it was bad tactics that caused the agents to get the hell shot out of them that day. If that situation happened today, it would probably be a whole different story. The one good thing to come out of it, was better training and tactics.

All this is pretty interesting.

1. I've studied the real gunfighters of the Wild West. One in particular is Doc Holliday. It always interested me why Doc ended up dying in bed in a sanatorium with all the gun fights he is known to have been in. Doc didn't care if he lived or died. He always looked at every gun fight as a good day to die. I believe because he wanted to die he put out an aria that made his opponents hesitant, he won they lost. All successful gunfighters of the day had the attitude of they did not care if they lived or died. If one is going to make a living as a gunfighter one has to have that attitude if one intends to live.

2. Contrary to Hollywood myth most gunfights were fought with rifles and shotguns in the day of the Wild West. Very few were competent enough to fight with handguns.

3. It appears the FBI agents, from the reading, movie bit, and what's been posted so far, the FBI agents went into a gun fight afraid to die. That's a losing attitude.

Okay, not "Green Berets" I stand corrected! THANKS jwp475!

Cannot remember how many times I read that Platt was said to be in an MOS he wasn't, apparently. I believe I even read about that error in John Ross's "Unintended Consequences." But no matter.

What Platt was certainly prepared to do that day he went down was certainly "memorable," and infamous!!

It appears the offical side arm was the Colt and S&W full size pistols although eventually they used detective type specials in .38 Special up until the .357 Mag. Hoover hated semi autos or so my Google search shows. Privately, it appears that some FBI agents bought and used some 1911's in .38 Super.

I did a little search on the history of the .38 Super for this and the .38 Super is an impressive round even more so with today's modern powders and brass. Quite frankly, if I wasn't an .45ACP man a 1911 in .38 Super would be a good gun to have.