Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62

I was referring to the Sako 85 Kodiak in either 338 or 375 h and h. It weighs 8 lbs, holds 5 rounds, and has an identical length 21 1/4 inch barrel.

5 is 3 more than anyone should really need, unless you are huntng DG.

6 is complete overkill.

So, very specifically, why the 7 lb Sako Blackbear 9.3x62 with 21 1/4 inch barrel over the 8 lb Sako Kodiak 375 H and H with a 21 1/4 inch barrel?

I had no real trouble getting sako headstamped brass, its probably Norma, I have 200 when I bought the rifle, and for a big game rifle it will last a long time.

Very specifically for me, it is a good deal lighter in weight making for a handier package, while having reliable big gun performance with the recoil of a Whelen. I'm of the opinion the Black Bear appears to be an excellent platform for the 9.3x62/66 if one was looking for such chambered rifle. Eight pounds is no slug for a 375, but for me, at 8 pounds, I'd rather it be chambered 416.

Best

Gary,

I have not done the recoil calcs yet, but I'm betting that the recoil in an 9 lb(with scope/rings/ammo/sling swivels/sling 9.3mm Black Bear is going to be un-noticeably different than in the 10 lb 375 H and H Kodiak. Given equal bullet weights.

So, we are left with the weight issue. I will leave it to the reader to decide if 9 lbs is much different than 10 lbs, in the arena in which these two rifles will be carried. I'm guessing that pound won't make a bit of difference.

What about available factory ammo? Why would anyone going on a DG hunt in Africa or Alaska put themselves at such a disadvantage?

The other issue is stainless vs blued steel. I'll take stainless every time.

Out of curiosity, I went ahead and used HuntAmerica's recoil calculator to run the numbers-

With Federal Ammo's factory TSX loads for each-

(actually surprised Fed even made ammo for the 9.3)

9.3x66 BlackBear with 289 gr TSX at 2300FPS yields 28ftlbs of recoil energy and 13 ft/s velocity

375 h and h Kodiak with 300gr TSX at 2400FPS yields 32 ftlbs and 14 ft/s.

Please note I lopped 60fps off the BB for barrel length and 70 fps for the Kodiak.

Both are surprisingly pleasant compared to a 300 ultramag running Remington's 180 gr Swift Scirocco factory load.

You're all over the map talking in circles.

Are you talking cartridges, rifles, or finish?

I'm not speaking for anyone else but me:

A 375H&H does not have significant recoil, but a 375H&H will have more recoil than a 9.3x62.

An eight pound rifle will be heavier than a seven pound rifle no matter where you carry that rifle on planet earth. A person looking for a seven pound base rifle will probably not find what they're looking for in a heavier eight pound base rifle. All else equal, the seven pounder will be handier.

Stainless steels used in production rifles are not created equal and are not rust proof. They will rust with exposure to salt spray, sweat, and chlorates. A proper barrier finish is needed to reduce this damage and a chrome moly substrate does not preclude one from having a proper barrier finish.

As to ammunition, I doubt you'd be at some sort of disadvantage for finding ammo with a 9.3x62 compared to a 375H&H.

Don't follow your point or logic. I have a chrome moly rifle with a durable finish more rust resistant than any factory production stainless rifle sold with the exception of maybe the factory stainless/Ionbond type finishes offered on a couple. It's the barrier finish that is the deal breaker and quite a number of plain old blue steel finished rifles have been pressed into some extreme service over the decades in both Alaska as well as Africa proving this point.

If you have a dislike for the 9.3x62, that is okay. If you have a dislike for a 7-pound rifle, that is okay. If you have a dislike for chrome moly rifles, that's okay too. But none of this changes the facts that a 9.3x62 is a good cartridge and that this new Black Bear appears to be an outstanding platform for this cartridge, even if it is made from chrome moly steel.

Best

Gary,

I agree with much of what you say in general terms.

I am speaking to the Sako Black Bear vs the Sako Kodiak, however.

I simply cannot understand why anyone, knowing the above facts, would choose the Black Bear over the Kodiak other than having a 9 lb rifle vs a ten lb rifle( a meaningless, unnoticeable difference in my book).

Now if you will finally admit that you like the BB in 9.3 because it's the trendy thing to do, well then ya got me.

I really like this rifle. I think it's a much more useful version of the Remington 600 350 Rem Mag. That's really what I'm after.

Omnivorous,

I just built a second 416 to improve upon and replace my older 416. My older "Shoemaker light rifle" M70 416 weighed around 8 1/2 pounds with mounts less scope. My newer version is better balanced, better fit, and weighs approx 7 3/4 pounds with mounts less scope. The scope weighs 6 1/2 ounces and the ammo weighs 6 ounces which brings my new rifle to just over 8 1/2 pounds ready to roll. The difference between my old and new rifle is around 3/4 pounds and that difference is night and day. I like my old rifle, but my newer version is markedly improved and unmistakably better in my hands. To further place this into perspective, my scoped Sako 30-06 weighs 6 pounds 13 ounces. I completely and whole heartedly disagree with your statement reference weight if you are attempting to apply your personal preference as being factually the same as others, such as myself. Your thoughts on the matter apply to you, but they certainly do not apply to me.

As to being trendy; the 9.3x62 is about as far removed from modern trendy as a cartridge can go. If anything, it is an antiquated cartridge that is too old and vetted to be considered new and trendy. Compared to the trend for speed with the newer designs, I'd think many consider the aged 9.3x62 to be sluggish.

Going back to your complaints; each point you raised can be turned on most every cartridge, rifle, or finish. One could easily proclaim with authority; "With knowing all the facts, why would anyone choose either a 9.3x62 or a 375H&H Sako, when they can choose (fill-in-the-blank)."

Best

My 9.3 recoils far less than my .375 and hits like the Hammer of God. What's not to love?

Recoil can be very subjective.

I love my custom C/M 9.3x62 but when I fired it with full house 286 reloads next to my PH's .375H&H Ruger 77 with 270 grain Barnes reloads, the recoil was noticeably less and more 'controlled' in the Ruger. The Ruger appeared to weigh substantially more than my rifle.

After a few hours tracking on foot though, the lighter 9.3 was the pick.

Sorry it took so long to get back, but I promised I'd give an update on the New Sako "Black Bear" 9.3x62. Everything worked out with a limited number of 20 rifles special ordered with an expected delivery date this December. I have my order in to reserve 1 of those 20. If anyone is interested, contact Alex Roy to get your name in the hat to reserve one of the remaining. By the time the order comes in, they may all be spoken for and gone.

Best

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754
+1 570 220 3159
Fax +1 570 368 3923

Very good looking rifle. Don`t see why the need for the flutes on the barrel though. Weight savings? Won`t be much.

I imagine the flutes are there as much for "bling" as for weight reduction but when I handled and shot the rifle it was noticibly lighter and far better balanced and quicker to the shoulder than the 375 H&H Kodiak and Brown Bear versions.

..........I won`t be trading in my 375 Ruger Alaskan for the Sako.

I decided to thin my collection. I'm a big 416Rem fan and have that want covered well. I'm also a big 30-06 fan and have that want covered also. There are times I want a bigger bullet than the 30-06 without jumping up to the 416 and over the years I've found myself keeping and running examples of 375H&H/Rugers, 338WM/06/RCMs, and some other in-betweens. I recently decided to keep my 30-06 and my 416, but to sell off and replace all my other in-betweens with a single 9.3x62, which in a pinch could also replace my 30-06 as well as my 416. We'll see how it goes, but for now I don't mind so much selling off some of my rifles to have a bit of cash on hand during these hard times. I'll give this new rifle a run to see if it fits the bill.

Best

Gary, how much are those rifles going to cost?

on his site they are 1,695

Spot

It finally came in and I gave it a cursory look over tonight. Far better than I had expected, very impressive rifle that appears near perfect for what I wanted in a 9.3x62. I'm going to run the rifle with Optilock Ringmounts and a Schmidt Bender Zenith 1.1-4x24. Alex Roy did a great job getting the Black Bear into the States when no one else could, I'm pleased.

I'll try and post a photo review of the rifle when I get a chance to sit down and spend some time with it. I'm thinking she'll turn out to be a stellar rig.

Later

P.S.,

Alex brought in some of the Black Bears in .308 and 30-06 as well as the 9.3x62. Not sure what is left, but if you're interested, I'd give him a call.

Later