Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders traditional vs inline

I'm always amazed at the way folks live in denial.

I like both neither is better or worse than the other.

Just tools to fill the freezer.

i like both.

Did the traditional clothing deal but as i grow older, certain things continue to hang lower and lower each year. The loin cloth was no use after that

I mainly shoot Inline now but own many sidelocks and a flinter.

then shortly followed by these words from the same person




that sure didnt take long

you still have to clean BH209 out of the barrel. Its a lot more forgiving than other subs but still contains sulfur and that is corrosive it self.

I'm sure it's a waste of time to ask, but did you have a point?

Traditionalist are always saying that traditional guns are just as accurate as inlines. Anyone that says this has no idea what they are talking about. Of course that goes without saying.

Educate me. Why are they more accurate? I guess you could talk about lock time being a factor, but depending on the shooter, this may or may not be an issue. Other than that, I don't see how the bullet reacts differently in an inline barrel vs. traditional. In any case, what accounts for the inherently more accurate rifle?

The way I've always viewed this debate is that inlines are strictly tools, cold, soul-less and impersonal in nature. An efficient device for the killing of game animals- nothing more, nothing less. A traditional muzzle loader on the other hand is an implement that captures the essence of nostalgia and grace of line, and is a tool to boot. The fact that they have been filling larders for the last 400 years means they have nothing to prove in that arena. You don't find many inline owners who cherish their guns as works of art, while the opposite is true in many instances of traditional gun owners.

Who gives a rat's ass if one system is more accurate than the other? It's a moot point. 95% of the guns of both types are more accurate than what their owners can do with them.

Swampman, you really don't have a clue, do you? I have read your posts over the last couple of years and shook my head in wonder but never publicly commented. Your combative, irritating, know-it-all, my-dick's-bigger-than-your-dick attitude gets in the way of people's accepting what otherwise might be useful information or interesting points of view from you. Like I said, you just don't get it.

arts of work arent always the best shooters.

I just shot a $170 cva wolf yesterday and shot a 7/8" group. Others with rifles 5x the cost struggle to do that.

gnoahhh
The best thing to do is ignore him the best you can . He will flip-flop around more the obama at a tea party meeting .


Very true
The thing is they have to be truly functional and not just working, works of art . There has to be quality under the cosmetics . If not . Then an average shooter isn�t going to be anymore accurate with a custom traditional gun then a higher quality production gun .
frankly even with quality if the shooter doesnt spend the time to learn the gun . he will never reach that guns potential . work of art or not

As was also mention accuracy has a whole lot to do with the shooter as well as the gun . doesn�t mater what gun it is .
IMO the large % of all shooters will never become capable of shooting any gun to the best of its capabilities . Especially when the cost of actual shooting is so greatly inflated .

I also think a lot of the divide comes from want and likes .
Basically no different then those who like lever actions , semi autos or bolts .
Those who prefer fully bedded systems to free floating systems .
Also as was mentioned . For some folks a gun is just a tool . Yet for others its more then just a tool .

Think about how some folks take care of their tools vs. how others who looks as there tools as something more .
isn�t it kind of funny how a mechanic who depends on and uses his tools every day . Counts on them to do their job , normally doesn�t buy cheep . Even though that cheep Chinese 1.00 wrench will turn a bolt many times just as well as a 25.00 quality wrench .
Why is that you think ?
Why is it that the same person will meticulously clean those tools after use . Gets completely bent when someone drops his tools ?
Yet the cheep tool for most of us . Myself included . Gets tossed in the box without a second thought

Kinda makes a fella wonder . At least it does me
Simply put , there are oh so many variables that go into just about everything . that�s just the way of things

Frankly though . I believe that people should at least have the fortitude and the character to make a stand on what they believe. Regardless of the situation .
If a person believes that modern designs are more accurate . Then fine . Stick to that opinion with sound reasoning . . . As long as your not comparing apples and oranges
When that reasoning becomes accepted . don�t back peddle . Stick to it .
I also think the same thing should go for those folks who do shoot both systems . If you don�t believe there is a difference in accuracy when comparing apples, then say so . Say it loud . When manufactures and writers try and scam the public . Hold them accountable for their opinions. The shooting public has a right to know the truth .


A couple years back I sat in on a closed door F&G meeting . The night before at the public meeting I listened to a regional big game supervisor go on and on about how his modern muzzleloader was far more accurate then his traditional rifle . Thus it was far more humane
Yet behind those close doors he testified that he had just a month before killed an antelope at 120 yards . How his traditional rifle, shooting a lead ball ,had place the ball right through the hart and lungs .
Thus in his opinion , neither system was any more accurate then the other .
So what had changed in 24 hours.
Well to put it bluntly he found out that the commission was about to place restrictions on modern designs based on his statement and supporting articles written by many modern manufactures and so called modern muzzle loading experts .
So what was the real truth ?
I cant say .
But if shooting a jacketed conical then his modern rifle was probably far more accurate with that round then his traditional one .
But the opposite is also probably true if you tried to shoot the same load that the traditional rifle shot most accurately in that same modern gun .
IE apples an oranges

Inlines are more accurate because the firing pin travels in a straight line, the lock time is at least a million times faster, and they are normally scoped. I like traditional guns and have shot them since the 1970s. I still hunt with them and use them for living histories. They are not as accurate as a modern muzzleloader. They are not as easy to clean. They are fun and cool. They got a special season because the hunter is handicapped by using one. The hunter using a modern muzzleloader is also handicapped but not quite as badly.

All are tools do you prefer a fiberglass handle or a hickory handle...just tools, nothing more nor less.

Actually, the point is whether or not one's rifle... be it a "traditional" sidelock rifle or an in-line... is accurate ENOUGH to put it's projectile into a 9-inch paper-plate sized target at whatever range the hunter chooses to shoot.

Since the average whitetail deer has a "vital zone" of about 9-inches, depending on the size of the deer, a white paper plate is an excellent example of the size of a deer's "kill zone" which is why I use a paper plate with a bright orange target paster in its center for an aiming point.

Doing this makes it very easy to determine if the shot(s) fired at the paper plate would have killed an average sized whitetail deer which is the game a great many of us hunt with our muzzleloaders.

Using this "specification", I would think that BOTH our "traditional" muzzle loaders AND the in-line muzzle loaders are pretty much on "equal ground" as far as successfully hunting big game with a muzzleloader.

While we "traditionalists" admit a modern in-line muzzle loader has some distinct advantages over our rifles of an older design, so what? Let's examine the truly USEFUL "advantages" an in-line actually has and how important and/or useful those "advantages" really are.

CLAIM #1
The modern in-line muzzleloading rifle is more accurate.

So what? If the traditional muzzleloading rifle can put its projectile within the 9" kill zone at whatever range the projectile is fired, there IS NO "ADVANTAGE".

CLAIM #2
The modern in-line muzzleloading rifle fires a heavier projectile at a much higher muzzle velocity thus giving it a "great effective range" advantage.

Again, so what? Since most whitetail deer are killed within 60 yards of the end of the muzzle, longer range capability is kinda meaningless since one's "range" only needs to be as far from the muzzle as the shot is taken... and 'most all traditional sidelock rifles will shoot out to 80 yards with more-than-enough-accuracy to bring down a deer. If your's doesn't, then you need to re-define your load or find out what's wrong with your rifle or its shooter/owner.

And there are "other issues" concerning speed of loading, ease of cleaning, etc., etc., etc.... these are a moot point to traditionalists since those who are "traditionalists" love the additional tasks that traditional muzzle loading rifles cause their shooter/owners to have. And if the traditionalist gets tired of the extra "tasks" or wants a longer effective range, then they can always buy & use an in-line.

Both of my sons are in their late 40's and both use in-lines with 3 powder pellets (150 grains) and a 295 grain sabotted hollow-point bullet in their scoped, .50 caliber in-lines. At the bench, I've watched as they fired shots while checking their rifle's scope to insure it was still properly aligned. The shot's recoil straightened-up BOTH of these hearty men quite SHARPLY (one a little over 200 lbs, one a little under 200 lbs.)... and their bullets chronographed on my chronograph at 2015 fps measured 15 feet from the muzzle.

While I didn't shoot their rifles with that heavy load (really didn't wanna)... the recoil looked pretty darned "healthy"... nothing like I get outta my more reasonable loads of 70 and 80 grains of FFFg Swiss in my .50 caliber Pennsylvania Long Rifle or my .50 caliber Hawken rifles.

BUTTTTTTTTT... in truth, it's "different strokes for different folks"... there is no "one-size-fits-all" in riflery or where men gather to discuss their preferences in rifles, calibers, loads or barrel lengths.

At least, that is how I see it... and, therefore, this is "my 2�"...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I normally use 80 grains of fff Goex in an inline. Pellets never produce good accuracy.

One hole groups at 100 yards are the norm. Even an $89.00 CVA will do this if you're brave enough to pull the trigger on a CVA.

or we buy a traditional design that designed for longer range shooting . Or have one built specificly for heavy conical long range shooting .

if a person took a modern inline barrel and converted it to a traditional rifle with a good quality lock . i seriously doubt that the avrage shooting is going to be able to desern any notacable diffrence in lock times even if its 10/100ths of a second slower in the hammer fall .

I believe I'd put up a Billinghurst or Wesson 40 rod, cap lock rifle against any in-line provided the means of sighting were the same. Aperature sights or scoped. cap, Ron, ET and perhaps others probably know what I'm talking about.

Living in denial is a terrible thing.

so how about telling us all here swampman just why it is the lock time is faster .

dont just say it , prove it

bigblock
, can you tell me what the travil distance of your firing pin in your CVA is ?

Just so ya'all dont get confused, Swampman1 and Swampman700 are the same person so when you argue with one and the other chimes in to help the other you will know this.......

with the right loads my sidelocks shoot with my inlines. Just starting to get those damned black/fuzzy floaters in my eyes, mainly my left eye which thankfully is not my shooting eye.

traditional rifles to this still still shoot 650+ yards open sight " well mostly peep sights" in competition.

Just face it, a great deal simply just can not control either their nerves when the game animal they are seeking, shows up, or they just flat out can not shoot off hand. Plain and simple, the style of rifle means very little to me personally.

Killed a couple deer with a traditional ML but I sold them off as soon as I could get a removable breech plug. Right now, traditional ml's are just good to look at IMO.

im still waiting to hear the strait line distance while a sidelock hammer has a a 1 to 1 1/2 inch fall , reasoning