Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Second Amendment ARE YOU ON THE ATF LIST ?????

I have often wondered when buying guns and filling out the paperwork, if those who frequently do so, are on a watch list with the feds ????

I was a firearms dealer for many years. When somebody fills out the 4473 they have to be approved before you can proceed with the sale. After the approval there is not supposed to be a permanent record kept by the government of the person making the firearm purchase. Whether this is true I really don't know. I do know that in a muliple handgun purchase the application hangs around a few days at least till the proper form of the multiple purchase is received from the dealer. This always semed a little fishy to me.

It's against the law for them to maintain the data.

Seems I remember reading where the Feds were keeping a list and some group found out. They said it was for national security or some BS. I could be wrong. Nothing seems to happen to the feds when they break the law anyways.

The idea that the federal government could "watch anyone" is science fiction.

Did you note the way the Anthrax deal, that caused the guy to kill himself, has now been discredited ?

How long did it take to catch the Unibomber (only cause his brother ratted him out).

The idiots even think the Mex drug cartels are buying full auto weapons in USA gunshops.

The 4473s getting into wrong hands is the real danger. Remember what the Cuban honcho told his people to do first after they took over the town in Red Dawn ?
A strangely precient movie .... just substitute ragheads from Detroit for the Cubans.

The very few number of replies to this post oughta tell you what most think.....

Interesting observation with at least two possible explanations:

1. The level of paranoia has reached the point where some believe they are already being "watched" and are afraid to post because "the guvn-ment" is watching them.

2. People dismiss the whole idea as stupid.

And one of the two is the heigth of folly...

But the idea that the Federal Government, or a clandestine part of it, could comprise a list/database of gun owners using the NICS is not far fetched. It would be illegal for them to do so, but nevertheless...

Also, all of the 4473's that have been filled out by buyers are maintained by the FFL's...until that licensee ceases to do business. Then the 4473's have to be turned over to the ATF. The idea that the Federal Government, or a clandestine part of it, could comprise a list/database of gun owners from those 4473's is not far fetched. It would be illegal for them to do so, but nevertheless...

So you really think the Feds have a secret group somewhere that has 5000 monkeys at 5000 keyboards building a data base of the millions of guns in the USA ? If they WERE, it would have long since been leaked. The government can't keep anything secret. (except who in the CIA killed JFK)(That's a joke)

And then what ? They're gonna come and get them ? I seem to recall the Brits tried that at two small towns called Lexington and Concord (with an obedient Army and little opposition). It didn't turn out too well for them.

The lessons of the UK and Australia have not been lost on us. Do you really think your buddy down at the range who is in the National Guard would shoot you to take your guns ? (And don't cite New Orleans, 99% of the people kept their guns)
"A shifting populace has made crime rates difficult to nail down, but even using the most generous estimates, New Orleans has ranked among the nation's most murderous cities for several years." (post Katrina)
In fact higher absolute number of murders than Detroit (52 vs 40) that has almost THREE times the population!

The guys who run our local gunshop/range say the in FL ALONE 4473s are going up 50% / year. That does not include FTF private sales either. There has to be 500 million+ guns in the USA .... probably more per capita than in 1776.

Heck the Police, FBI, ATF etc COMBINED can't even clean up all the "illegal" guns in the hands of gang bangers .... but they're "coming to get" your 30-30 and 12 gauge ?

Finally the "shift" of the types of guns owned by the general populace toward ARs and semi-auto handguns has a "multiplier effect" on the honest citizens' ability to resist any gun grab attempt.

Keep buying .... help the economy!

Regarding what I said in my post, I'm just sayin' it's not beyond the scope of possibilities...

Neither is a giant asteroid hitting the earth, but I'm not wasting bandwidth on it.

I've been averaging about 4 rifles a month...sometimes 2 are called in at the same time by my dealer.

Should I be worried that somebody from the ATF called my work phone and asked for somebody else? I answered with my name and she asked for somebody else. She said she had the wrong number and hung up. I noticed it said ATF on the caller ID.

My guess is that if they were fishin' for me....they'd use a phone line that didn't have the caller ID info on it.

I guess I need to get a CHL so my dealer doesn't have to call in the instant check every time.

Must....get....foil....hat....TIGHTER!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C43snhZns_A&feature=related

Do you have an FFL? Do you deal with the ATF at all? If you are an FFL, have you ever been on the receiving end of an ATF compliance inspection? If you are an FFL, did you go through the nationwide 'purge' of FFL's that took place during the Clinton Administration? If you are an FFL, have you ever been 'requested' by the ATF to assist them in a trace? If you are an FFL, has an ATF agent ever paid you a visit at your licensed premises?

When the instant check is called in, neither your address or phone number are given......and its called in to the FBI, not BATF...

Not saying its a good thing or playing the Devil's advocate...but just sayin...

Does this answer your question.

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/1...tf-already-have-a-national-gun-registry/

Robert Farago ? You gotta be kidding. Better check out his links to various paranoid whacko militia groups before citing him as a source.

Just for giggles .... assume they have this list ..... so what ?

The IRS has your tax records, anyone kicked down your door yet ?

PA puts how many hunters on opening day of deer season ? All their guns will be seized ? By whom ?

Better ask King George III about trying to seize guns ........

Nothing like a stupid sign to tell bad guys what to expect ........ Their AKs will outrun your plastic pistol !

Much better sign to hang on your door ......... he he he

Thats kinda my contention...with over 100 million guns in circulation ( some say WELL over...) who exactly are "they" gonna send after us...?

They didn't send anybody after you, to get your money from you, so they could use your money to fund abortions either! But...they do get your money from you, and they do use your money to fund abortions! And they did it with the stroke of a pen! And not only that...they use your money to do all kinds of things that you don't agree with! And they not only do this to you...they do it to millions of us! We don't rise up and fight em'! We go along with it...all of us do. Small bites...added up over time...have become tremendously huge bites. Huge bites that are fundamentally wrong, but are yet 'accepted' by millions of us. Who would have thought that crap like this could have ever happened here?

It's an analogy of course. But the point is this...it happened! It came to pass!

So that is what is stands for. Abortion Tax Funding!

The polling among VOTERS on abortion is moving toward making it go away.

That said: if your daughter was taken and raped by some "homeboy" out selling drugs to all" the nice folks" in your neighborhood, would you want to force her to bear the child ?

Second ( and VERY cold, I admit), do you have any idea how many more welfare mouths to feed were not abortion readily available ?

Between 1973 and 2004, roughly 15 million blacks were aborted, which means that, as of 2004, nearly 30% of the black population has been lost to abortion!
The numbers for whites and hispanics are also high (1100 & 700 per DAY).

Since Row v Wade was ruled on in 1973, it would be reasonable to assume that those aborted, plus their offspring, who would have ended up on the dole would be in the double digit millions.

It's an ugly problem no matter how you cut it or where you stand.

I think it's funny how people think the gov could not keep "the list", or a department that makes it a secret.

The NSA is the largest government organization and nobody knew about it for how many years? Just sayin.....

My FFL guy told me that after being audited for the third time in five years, the auditor had a list of frequent transferees and questioned him about whether he (FFL) thought that those of us were dealing firearms illegally. The auditor retained the list of names and addresses when he left. Just the facts, no speculation.

I consider myself pro-life but I cannot argue with any of your points.

If one makes mutiple firearm purchases within 5 days of each other, the FFL must report those purchases to the ATF. This is not a phone call; it is written notification.

This is fact not fiction.

I can. The argument is based on the assumption that there would be equal frequency of unplanned or unwanted pregnencies "if" abortion was not an assessable means of "birth control."

I would argue that a readily assessable means of infanticide is a factor in the growing number of unplanned or unwanted pregnencies.

As to the rapest, should not he be the one to die? If my memory serves me correct, less than 4% of all abortions are due to rape or incest. Why not allow the Father ready access to the rapest? The unborn child is not the one deserving to die.

I'm not sure Mr. Holder would care to answer that question under oath. Of course, you've got to believe and respect the Bible first!

I have a buddy who was in Tucson a few years back in a gun store, in comes the BATFE loaded down with laptops. They get to the owner, ask to see his records and disappear into the back room. Highly doubt they were surfing the internet for sports scores. Some of you guys trust our beloved gov't way more than I do. I mean really, they have snuck so many things into law and past the population without letting us know that to think they are not collecting data is way more than I believe. We have a minority ruling the majority and just listen to some of the anti's comments. Personally I think that answers this question right away.

What will they do with it? I hope nothing but I believe a lot. Go through a security clearance check and I'll bet you will agree with me a lot more than not.

Here is one that has had me thinking. I bought a Remington 597 in 17 HMRseveral years ago. Did my paperwork as normal. Never sent in the warranty card or registered online with Remington. Well the 17HMR has been recalled. I got a letter addressed to me directly from Remington in regards to the recall. How in the world did they get my information? I highly doubt they would contact every distributor to find out what stores bought the guns and then went to the stores to look up paperwork that most certainly would be filed in such a way that it would be a very long task to find all the 17HMR 597s. So just where did this info come from. Makes you wonder. Give ATF a range of Serial #s and get contact info?????

my uncle is retired BATF, you better believe they keep data. larry they might even be looking into yours.

Not sure if this is true, similar sites are blocked from here.

BATFE Requests 4473's

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2867740/posts

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/04/03/batfe-violates-the-law-again/#axzz1qtRD8D39

I think its more likely that they have one little subroutine that dumps the names/addresses of every background check in a file. Of course its not legal, but it was just glitch or an oversight.

Our gov't is proof that he who makes the rules seldom worries about keeping them becuase nobody enforces their own rules back on them. Guys this isn't gonna get any better anytime soon either. Lefelong politicians who have forgotten who they really are working for. The minority ruling the majority by enforcing laws becuase something or the other "might offend". Someone or some group deciding what is best for me, healthcare, we don't need perosnal firearms, what is taxed because it's a luxury, what taxes we have to pay.....Well all of that offends me. Sorry for the rant but it's a joke where this country has gotten to. Bet our forefathers would be wondering why we are letting it happen and not doing much if anything about it. They had more guts than I do I guess.

My father had an FFL for about 20 years, never audited by the BATF, he only sold about 100 guns a year, most of which were to the New Jersey State Police. In New Jersey you need a NJ State Firearms retailers license on top of the FFL. The NJSP did audit him twice a year, never had a problem, his records were perfect!

I've always assumed that I've been on some sort of list ever since I wrote to the President Clinton asking him to veto the "assult weapons" ban and received a letter in response declining to do so.

Ye, I generally get a visit once a year from an ATF person to make sure my records are being kept correctly and that my books coincide with the # of guns I have in stock.

I have been asked to assist in a gun trace just once. I thought it may be a test situation as all the info that they gave me allowed me easily to trace where the gun went, however the caliber they gave me didn't match the caliber that the gun actually was. After giving them the info, I never heard from them again abut this particular gun.

To be honest, all my dealings so far with the ATF have been no problem at all. All inspectors have been very polite and if there was anything wrong, they would advise you on how to do it right. Also they would answer any questions you might have with personal guns or anything else. I would say all their visits to me have been educational and pleasant.

I conduct my business in NY. God help me now. NY has no NICS funded by the state, so all my checks are called into the FBI.

I have been told by them a few years ago that the checks were discarded after a day or so and gone forever. I think that has change in the last year or 2 and all records are kept permanently at this point in time.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so

Yes they keep it. If it's not illegal, it's contrary to the promises made when the '68 GCA was enacted since the politicians said it would not be used for registration. The ATF was found out to be computerizing these records back during the Clinton administration and Congress ordered them to cease and desist but IIRC the ATF just went ahead with it.

I highly doubt there is a comprehensive list anywhere-per se.

However, as I understand it, if you have more than 10 transactions called in in a calander year, your name is flagged.

That was allowed, by strange coincidence, under the Patriot Act...

FFL to FFL and FFL to CHL transactions only show up on audits.

Believe me, if the government is watching you, it isn't cause you own a gun.

And as far as lists go, I'd much rather be on the ATF's list than the NSA's......

Just saying.