Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots Continental singles from Merkel, Kreighoff, Heym or Chapuis Anyone?

If you have one of these I would be interested in your appraisal and experience and if you were drawn here by the post but shoot one of these in a light double sound off too.

I don't own one, yet, but have the itch. The question is caliber, but that will be answered when I run across a deal on one.

I know a hunter who bought a 7x57 Blaser K-95 in 2002 and loves it. He has taken 3 whitetails, a red deer and a big boar hog with it. He bought it in Germany for the hog hunt. I like the scope mounts on the Blaser.

A local gunshop has the Merkels, which have a slightly longer barrel. Beautiful and balanced. The Merkel seems to not be as easy as the Blaser to fit extra barrels, from what dealers tell me.

Sabbati also makes one, with a Krieghoff style safety that cocks the rifle. Trigger weight is 26 oz.

After much thought over the past 3 years, I just purchased a Merkel K-1 in .308 WCF. I am extremely disappointed:

1) It is so beautiful, with spectacular wood and hand-engraved receiver, that it blinds my friends with envy.

2) The trigger, unlike those on out-of-the-box American rifles, is a crisp 2.6 pounds (adjustable down to 2.2) so is obviously dangerous.

3) Weight is 6-3/4 pounds with a 6x42 Leupold, obviously too light to be shot with any accuracy. To prove this, my first tests with handloads (150 Sierras and Varget) would only group into .75 at 100 yards.

4) The cocking-type safety is silent and can't be accidentally pushed "on." So there's nothing else to blame if a deer spooks or I shoot myself in the foot.

On top of all that, the detachable scope mounts replace exactly every time, so I don't get the opportunity to sight-in the rifle every time it's taken apart. The backup iron sights are also very well designed and incredibly rugged, so there's no excuse to go to the gunsmith for replacement.

To repeat, I am extremely disappointed.

MD

Do you mind if I print this and show it to my Merkel dealer, so I can bargain down the price? You forget to mention the shortcomings of that Swarowski scope that came on it, but I can handle that.

So, I take it you won't be keeping the rifle... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> May I have first dibs on it? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Don

Under the heading of "Rifles I should have bought but didn't..." About a year ago I visited a gun shop that I stop at infrequently... There on the rack was a J.P. Sauer Stalking rifle. It was a single shot break open (Like a single bbl shotgun) chambered in 6.5x58 Sauer. I probably should have bought it. Because, believe it or not, I have dies for it! But upon researching the chambering I realized that performance was on a par with the .25-35 Win. So the $1500 price tag kind of turned me off. For all I know, it's still there....the9.3Guy

MD,
You're right, someone of your expertise and reputation should not have such a piece of junk lying around. I'll be glad to make the 1500 mi trip to Montana, to pick that thing up and get it away from you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Steve

Welcome back to the Old World!

Regards
RD

Maybe you can use the argument that the .25-35 has only killed about 1,000,000 mule deer to bargain down the price of that Sauer stalking rifle.

To all--

Just got back from a three-day trip helping resettle my newly married daughter and son-in-law. Needed something to read while my wife spelled me in the driving so picked up a copy of the DG Journal. My oh my, I shouldn't have. An article on "light double" guns lit my fire on top of the one burning for a Continental single.

Mule Deer--

My heart goes out to you. What can I do for you to salve the anguish you must feel over this great disappointment? I'll make a prediction here - are you sitting for this now - that this experience may cause a stirring in you for another by Chapuis or Saurer or Krieghoff....just to make sure, you know, that this first sad experience wasn't a fluke. Or maybe a light double in say, dare I say, .30-06 or 7x57 or the new Rigby light double in a new proprietary .350 Rigby (the .348 necked up to .35 cal - a rimmed .35 Whelen). Now wouldn't that be nifty in the elk woods? Man!!

I have pondered the Blaser R95, love the looks of the Merkel stalker and several of the others. Where is all this going to lead?? I don't know.
Shouldn't there be a dedicated forum for these arms where if we don't have one we can at least commisurate together? I'm going to work on it though. To work!

Roe Deer--

I am a fan of German guns. In fact, am a member of the German Gun Collectors Society, though my collection is rather small. The Merkel is only my 5th, and the others are all much older: a custom 6.5x54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) bolt rifle, a 9.3x74R side-by-side, a Sauer SxS 12-gauge, and a Daly-Sauer drilliing, 12x12 over .30-30.

Oddly enough, good German guns can often be found at reasonable prices over here, at least much lower than the equivelnt grade British guns--one reason I'm a fan!

MD

Bad form, MD, to rub it in like that.

I will be selling my merkel k1, with two barrels, soon as I get some pictures up this weekend. It has chambers for rimmed rounds, which are the best for breakaction kipplaufbuchse (tip-open) type rifles. These have the extremely strong jaeger lockup action, same as the breakopen Blazers and others.

Appropriate european calibers, in rimmed 7X65R and 9.3X74R. Will sell with either the kahles or swaro fixed power scope. great backpacking rifle. Both barrels custom fitted by Merkel/GSI, and have interchangeable scope mounts.
Extremely fine shooter, I just outgrew it and went back to prewar Merkels with real engraving.
The interchangeable side panels were hand selected for stag elk and chamois goat, to match the traditional rimmed calibers.
Email me if interested, or watch classifieds this weekend.

Jameister

ad 1 - Good - that's where your expertise comes from :-)

ad 2 - my first fine "Civil" Mauser was a bolt action 8x60. It was successfully hidden by an acquaintance after WWII from marauding GI's and I swapped it for venison.
Unfortunately, not much later, I had to swap it again for winter tires (or a perambulator or something like this, don't remember exactly).

ad 3 - 1: If you by chance bump into a Civil Mauser 8x60 please give me call

ad 3 - 2: The main reason for big prices of British guns are
a) clever British gunmakers and
b) rich chauvie Brits.
BTW - many many high price class guns and rifles w/ British proof marks were and are manufactured on the Continent or even elswhere (Africa!). One time I sneaked into some gun plants "wrong" door and found parts and guns ready for shipping to a verrry famous Brit gun factory. This was long before "globalization of merchandism".

Regards
Roe

Wondered how long it was going to take you to weigh in on this one, Roe deer!

cAT

Roe--

Another reason for high prices for British guns is Anglophile Americans. The two most avid I know are of Italian and German(!) descent, which may make them genetic traitors.

Always found it interesting that the Brits mostly made their "ultra-fine" bolt-action rifles on German actions.

Concerning stuff not made where it supposed to be these days: Have it on good authority (another "wrong door" story) that some high-priced Continental optics are made in Japan. No indication of that on the product.

MD

MD: Related to the wrong door, I have heard that Kahles binoculars are of Japanese-Austrian descent. With a bit less Austrian than indicated...

MD and Jameister--

It is a global economy more than just in generalities. Here at home (U.S.) we make almost nothing anymore.

George

When I moved to Phoenix almost 15 years ago, I was told the economy was driven by five C'c: cattle, copper,citrus, and cotton, and construction. ALl are still there, but the order is now deranged, and tourists and retired drive the program as much as any actual production ever did.

The largest dominated the list, and was construction, where, best I can tell, people build houses for people that build houses to live in. All the rest are way down from then. but you can still get firearms made here, and the renaissance of custom names turning to production names is good to see. Dakota, Kimber, Cooper, Montana rifle, Sharps, to name a few.


Back to topic: Some of these european single shot actions are extremely well designed for strength, chambering for the 7 rem magnum and 300 win magnum would not have been doable before the use of these actions.. Guns would just shoot apart at the face. I can conceive of a SXS double with such construction, but it would be a work of skill to fit it... or reload it..

Jameister

Minox binos are made in Japan - no secret here, though, since me, as the first gun scribe at all, wrote on it.

Concerning Kahles: afaik all "Kahles" branded instruments are produced in Vienna Austria

Regards
RD

Roe Deer,

Re: the J.P. Sauer stalking rifle I mentioned in a previous post. (6.5x58R Sauer)

Would you have any knowledge of said rifle? My research has netted me exactly zero. Since this thread started, I happened over there the other day and looked again at it. It has been on the rack for more than two years that I know of. I believe it can be bought for about $1000 US. It is very light and trim. It has bases for a claw mount scope on it, as well. If I knew a bit more about it, I'd be alot more interested in it.

COTW puts the performance of the 6.5x58R Sauer on a par with the .25-35 Win. Kind of light for deer, but would work well for Turkey with cast bullets where legal. Or, for just general plinking.... TIA...the9.3Guy

Oh, just go get it. Then you can tell us about how darn well it handles, that it shoots even better, that it kills everything up to decent elk like lightning, and that you wish you'd bought it earlier.

The darn thing's got you bit, 9-3, just admit it and get it. The only way to get past it is to have it and continue to love it or to get it, find out she ain't the girl of your dreams and pass her on.

Just be kind enough to share the first field/range report, will ya'?

9 3Guy--

The 6.5x58R was/is a Danish target round made by necking down the 8mm Model 89 militry round. A 140-grainer should hit around 2500 fps or so, not a screamer especially by today's standards but certainly a mild and adequate deer round. Obsolete 8x58R Norma Danish Krag cases can be necked down and I believe there are still factory loads availabe by one of the European makers. It's probably in the same ball park as the mild, domestic factory loaded 6.5x55 Swedish. It is definitely ahead of the 25-35; you might want to check more into the ammo availability situation but that might be one fun little gun and classy too.

George

Whoops! Sorry. The 6.5x58 Sauer is a different animal and you're right; it's a rung under the 25-35 in power and is a long tapered cartridge kind of a long, very skinny .375 H&H.

George

George,

I believe that Bertram makes brass for it. If not, they can be formed from 9.3x72R. If I had to buy custom dies, I wouldn't even consider it, but since I already have dies and bullets, And even a couple of 6.5 bullet moulds, it has me thinking..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (Which is never a good thing...) ...the9.3Guy

1000 US is a fair price for a "Kipplaufb�chse" like this. The 6,5x58 R is a rimmed ctg derived from the British/German 360 "Express" cases of the 1880's. Ammo was produced until 1940. Cases are easily reformed from new RWS 9,3x72 R.
I have been loading it to 765 m/s - 6,5 g and 685 m/s - 7,8 g within the official - low - pressure limit (2800 bar).
Bear in mind this is a 6,40/6,64 mm caliber - not a "true" 6,5 ctg. (.264" bullets are much to thick!). Accuracy with (too small) .257" bullets was pretty fair in some rifles, though. Some Kraut bullet makers have bullets of correct diameter but better slug your barrel because rifles before 1939 are not "standardized".
If you want to fix a scope, one drawback of this offer is the only partially existent claw mount, because it is all hand fitted - you can't buy standardized parts. You could try to remove the dovetail scope bases and replace it with some hand fitted lower parts of US standard mounts.
Regards
RD

Grasshopper,

I think I know the gun you are talking about. I have been looking at that rifle for 2 years also. I have no hope of getting it, and even if I did I could never feed it. But, I do love to hold it. It would be a joy to carry and it seems to jump to your sholder, with the sights lined up every time. I have even mounted it with my eyes closed and when I opened them the front sight was snug in the back sight. I have thought of meassuring the LOP and the drop to keep for when I can afford my dream gun.

I did however find 2 cheap american stalking rifles that I might get to try and turn into a poor mans version of that gun. They are savage 219s in 30-30. With better sights and a scope base added, and a trigger job, and a reblue, and some stock work, it might fool me untill I can afford one as classy as the one you talk about.

P.S. Where abouts mid michigan? I'm in Ann Arbor untill this house sells and then moving back to Traverse City. Right now my job is driving around the state to all the county courthouses, what my boss dosen't know is that what I really do is drive around the state to all the gun shops I can find. If you ever get up to Alpena there is another "Bob's" there that is also a good shop. It is one of those that has old stuff everywhere. Like a box of old Weavers and tang sights still in the origanal box. Lots of fun to just poke around.

Anyhow let us know if you get the gun, I know I've been dying to know how it shoots for 2 years.

Photog

Photog, some Savage 219 30-30 rifles have been rechambered to .30-40 Krag, with the 26" standard barrel this would be about as powerful as the usual .308 WCF. I have no idea of the safety of this conversion but it has apparently been done OK.