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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Well, in a really special .280 AI you might get 75 fps!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,292
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,292 |
Many people who build or chamber AI rounds load them pretty warmly. This leads .280 AI enthusiasts to claim they can match the 7mm Remington Magnum in a small case. And of course they can--by loading the .280 AI to higher pressures than the 7mm Remington Magnum.
Exactly why this is better than just using a 7mm Remington Magnum is rarely explained. Often the enthusiasts claim less recoil--which is BS. Often they claim better accuracy, which is natural when a rifle has a top-grade custom barrel. Rarely they claim the ability to put more rounds in the magazine, which doesn't seem to speak very well of the ability of the cartridge or the shooter.
Don't get me wrong. I have used the .280 AI and it worked very well on game, though mine was a Ruger No. 1, so I couldn't take advantage of the greater magazine capacity. But in the end I decided exactly the same thing I decided 15 years ago, after using the standard .280 for a lot of hunting over several years: The .280 AI is a great cartridge, in fact it's just as good as the .270 Winchester! Blasphemey 
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Well, in a really special .280 AI you might get 75 fps! Geee!.......
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Hey, I think the .280 AI is a great round, and Nosler did a fine job of making it a commercial cartridge. But it's yet another piece of evidence that the American rifle loony loves to fill every little crevice among commercial rounds.
I still have one, by the way--a Remington 700 BDL stainless/synthetic in 7mm SAUM....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Hey, I think the .280 AI is a great round, and Nosler did a fine job of making it a commercial cartridge. But it's yet another piece of evidence that the American rifle loony loves to fill every little crevice among commercial rounds.
I still have one, by the way--a Remington 700 BDL stainless/synthetic in 7mm SAUM.... Well, how does it shoot? I'm guessing you wouldn't have kept it if it didn't?
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,631 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
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JB as a .280AI owner I must agree with you, we loonies or "churners" do need to fill every possible gap and then convince ourselves we are getting results which the laws of physics deem impossible. I enjoy my .280AI, love the nolser brass and don't achieve anything the .270 does not, except the .270 feeds smoother.
GRF
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,664 Likes: 5 |
Hey, I think the .280 AI is a great round, and Nosler did a fine job of making it a commercial cartridge. But it's yet another piece of evidence that the American rifle loony loves to fill every little crevice among commercial rounds.
You're right. I need one to fill the huge chasm that exists between my 7x57 and 30-06, personally  !
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
It shoots great--but is also a "slow-switch-barrel" rifle, the other barrel a 9.3 B-S.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
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It shoots great--but is also a "slow-switch-barrel" rifle..... ?????????????????????????????
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540 |
cumminscowboy,
About 5 grains, depending on brand of brass. If you handload the standard .280 up to the same pressure (65,000) then it comes within 50 fps or so of the AI. The problem as I see it is the PUBLISHED (Nosler & Hodgdon) load data for the .280 Rem is limited to the SAAMI max pressure of 60Ksi. The handloader without pressure testing facilities would be hard pressed to discern when they reach 65Ksi if they choose to exceed these published, pressure tested loads. These same companies also list pressure tested data for the .280AI and in both instances (Nosler & Hodgdon) the velocities shown are well over 100fps greater for the AI version. So if a handloader is to stick with data published by the major manufacturers the velocities achievable with the AI version are from over 100 to over 200 fps faster. That level of velocity improvement is noteworthy and is akin to the difference between the .300 Savage, .308 Win, and .30-06.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
How does the 270 stack up against the Ackley when using 160 gr bullets ?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
The .270's about 100 fps behind.
In my experience you'll get about the same velocity with 150's in a .270 as with 160's in a .280 AI (or 7mm SAUM), given equal barrel length. That's what Nosler's data suggests as well.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,664 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,664 Likes: 5 |
It shoots great... ...the other barrel a 9.3 B-S. Not to hijack the thread here, but did you ever tinker w/ a SAUM or WSM parent instead of the 350 RM you settled on for your B-S cartridge?
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,707
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,707 |
The 280 AI has a lot of cool factor!  Here is mine, M700 blue printed action, Hart #5 flutted 24" barrel, Tubb recoil lug pillar bedded in a LSS stock. ![[Linked Image]](http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/JD338_photos/IMG_0315.jpg) She shoots too! Nosler 160 gr AB ![[Linked Image]](http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/JD338_photos/280AI.jpg) JD338
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,515 Likes: 1 |
I have had two improved 280 Remintons. Both had 24" tubes. One was a RCBS the other was an Ackley. Both were existing rifles that had been rechambered. The gain with the same pressures was about 40 fps. Those improved 280's with 24" barrles would move 140's at about the same speed the 270 Win will drive a 130 in a 22" tube which is 3125-3140.
The 7 RM will easily outrun the 280 by about 125 to 150 FPS until you get to the the heavier bullets in the 160-175 range where the magnum is faster.
I doubt that the bullet or the target knows which case pushed it out of the barrel.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
efw,
Charlie Sisk has done a 9.3 on the WSM case. In fact I believe he has made a 9.3 wildcat on just about any case possible, somewhere around 20 of them.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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On the subject of pressure, my former partner loves seeing velocity numbers starting with "3" followed by more digits. He was able to get his 22" barreled 270 Win to move a 130 at over 3400 fps---for one shot. Then he had to take the rifle home to get the melted brass off the bolt face and to determine if he had ruined a previously perfect rifle. His load was about 4 grains over the max load of IMR 4831. The numbers on the case head were mashed so hard there were no traces remaining. I wonder about the speeds reported by those who are a "fan" of any rifle cartridge.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Buckfever, pay little attention to Mule Deer he is having an attack of rationality. I think his loony card needs to be revoked. If we follow his thinking a bunch of rounds need to be dumped. Heck, if I wanted to be rational I'd sell most of my rifles and use the .308. What fun would that be. Get yourself a .280AI and be a loony, have some fun and look down you nose at the boring guys who shoot .308's.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have an idea. Neck the 280 Rem case down to .277. Now that will be one for only the looniest of the very loony. It will be unique as well. It will have a little more capacity than a 270 Win. Will require handloading. Nobody else will have one. You will need to use 280 Rem brass. It will be unsafe to use factory ammo as well. WOW
Last edited by RinB; 03/07/11.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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A few years ago I had a really nice 24" 280AI built. It did just what you would expect that cartridge to do in that barrel length.
After the new car smell wore off I never could figure out why, since I was using a long action and a 24" barrel anyway, I didn't just go with a 7Rem or 7Wby mag.
Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!
Stolen from an erudite CF member.
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