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isaac Offline OP
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Why Unions Are Harmful to Workers
By John Lott

Published March 17, 2011
FoxNews.com

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker has finally won his first battle with public employee unions. But the fight against excessive union rights now moves to Idaho, Indiana, Michigan, New Hampshire, Ohio, and Tennessee.

Of course, union leaders are upset, with AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka recently telling PBS�s "News Hour": �This is about [Gov. Scott Walker] trying to take away the rights of workers to come together to bargain . . . .�

But in fact, Governor Walker�s budget will help the vast majority of workers in the state. Mr. Trumka naturally wants to make it appear that he is fighting for workers generally, but that is not the case. He is just fighting for some workers, but he is hurting other workers -- other union workers who are laid off because the state cannot afford them or other workers who are forced to pay higher taxes.

Unions are harmful because they act as monopolies. If the union members won�t work, the law makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to step in and do their jobs. As a result, union workers have little competition -- so they can demand higher wages and do less work.

By threatening to stop work if companies don�t pay employees more, unions force companies to layoff some workers. That hurts some union workers. Unions don't just pit workers against employers. They pit a select group of workers against consumers, stockholders, and other workers. Unions don't even make agreements that are in the interest of all their own workers, just those in the majority, usually just older workers with more seniority.

Suppose demands for higher wages or benefits means 20 percent of unionized workers would be fired. That isn't such a hard decision for a union. Twenty percent of its members will oppose the agreement, but they won't be union members for long. Most of the remaining 80 percent are likely to support the agreement.

Unions also protect seniority, not the most productive workers. When layoffs occur, it is the most recently hired workers who are laid off first.

Recently, there have been cases of teachers� unions holding lotteries to see who gets laid off. When was the last time you saw a private company make hiring/firing decisions that way?

Union advocates talk about the "right" to collective bargaining, but it is unclear why this "right" trumps the right of other workers to have a job.

In Wisconsin, Governor Scott Walker threatened to lay off 6,000 workers if he wasn't able to get his union bill passed. But Trumka and other union members, over the objections of Wisconsin�s non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, claim that the layoffs are all part of budget trickery, alleging that Wisconsin actually has a budget surplus.

Bad corporate monopolies face competition. By restricting sales and raising prices, other companies see a chance to start producing the product and make profits.

There is a reason why only 6.9 percent of private sector workers are in unions. Unions have tried reduce this competition by representing the workers in an entire industry, such as steel, cars, or coal mining. That way they can raise wages without worrying about non-union companies getting the jobs. But ultimately there is still competition from foreign workers. Unions help ship a lot of would be American jobs overseas.

So how do unions end up representing 36.2 percent of public sector workers? Simply put, they have an additional type of monopoly. Not only do unions have a monopoly in bargaining with the government, the government has a kind of monopoly as well.

Take education. Parents pay for public education through their property and other taxes -- whether they send their kids to public or private schools. Public schools must really be a lot worse than private ones before parents are willing to pay the public school taxes and still pay private school tuition on top of that -- effectively paying twice for school.

In contrast, private schools that kept paying more and more for teachers would quickly find themselves out of business. Not surprisingly, teacher unions not only oppose any weakening in their current rules that they alone represent teachers in any negotiations, but they also strongly oppose anything that would create competition for public schools, whether it be charter schools, vouchers or tax credits.

Gov. Walker was willing to compromise and let public employee unions negotiate over everything: salaries without limit, mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers. Yet, he drew the line at pensions, which have accumulated huge unfunded liabilities. At least voters could see the current costs of paying public employees higher salaries, but both politicians and unions have proven untrustworthy over the hidden long-term costs of these retirement payments. But even that was too much for the unions and their Democratic allies.

Wisconsin�s public employee unions have been problematic in another way: high mandatory dues. With union dues of $500 to $1,000, employees have had to give money to unions whether they approved of what they did with the money or not. Walker�s changes finally give government employees the choice of whether they would rather spend their money on something other than unions. The new law doesn�t supersede union contracts that are already in place.

Unfortunately, Wisconsin Secretary of State Doug La Follette, a Democrat, has taken the unprecedented practice of delaying a governor�s request to immediately publish the new law, a requirement that must be met before the law goes into effect. Delaying the publication date until March 25 allows unions and local Democrat officials around Wisconsin rush to pass contract extensions that protect unions from increased contributions to their pensions and health care benefits.

Few would sympathize with a company that raises prices by restricting the amount they produce, let alone supporting the government protecting the monopoly from competition. But unions do that and more, and they only accomplish this through government force.

Well-paid union members shouldn�t be given benefits at the expense of other Americans.

John R. Lott, Jr is a FoxNews.com contributor. He is an economist and author of �More Guns, Less Crime� (University of Chicago Press, 2010).



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Yeppers...


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Unions are one of the biggest money laundering schemes in America. They take money from workers, funnel it to politians who give the money back to the unions. Then they have the nerve to talk about jobs leaving America. There is no such thing as a "right" to collective bargaining. It's all one sided. No tax payers on the other side of the table. Those are the people paying. I can see some of the good SOME of the trades do, Unions in government, is just flat corruption.


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Unions = organized crime,very bad for our country and jobs...


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Guess I was wrong for getting out of bed all those years and going to work.

[bleep] YOU [bleep].


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isaac Offline OP
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Don't confuse your professionional career,your work ethic and providing for your family with what the article is addressing.


The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward




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Unions have pushed so many jobs overseas that it's sickening. They have even admited that they don't give a crap about families and their kids.It's all about them robbing as much cash as they can..... Greed is what they are all about.


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Short version:

Unions force economic distortions where some workers are forced to pay higher than fair market value for their services and goods because other workers are getting above fair market rates to make and distribute them.

Ultimately market forces destroy companies that charge above fair market value for services and goods, whether by their own choice or because they were coerced. Market distortions sometimes last a long time, but they always come undone in the end, destroying the institutions that created them. Witness Detroit.


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Quote
Greed is what they are all about.


I would say short sightedness and ignorance of basic economics rather than greed. In the short term you can extort higher than fair market rates. In the end, it destroys institutions, ruins careers, and takes away people's livelihoods. That in turn destroys communities and creates opportunities for companies that want to compete at fair rates. Those companies then build their own communities.

For a long time, it did not matter how much the UAW got for their members. All the auto manufacturers that mattered were in Detroit, and they all had to pay essentially the same rates. So none of them had an advantage over the other, and we all paid for it through automobile prices. But those prices were above fair market.

That created opportunity for Hyundai, Honda, and Toyota to name a few.

Now look where we are.

Good going, UAW. You did real good for us.



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Originally Posted by isaac
Why Unions Are Harmful to Workers
By John Lott

Published March 17, 2011
FoxNews.com

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker has finally won his first battle with public employee unions. But the fight against excessive union rights now moves to Idaho, Indiana, Michigan, New Hampshire, Ohio, and Tennessee.

Of course, union leaders are upset, with AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka recently telling PBS’s "News Hour": “This is about [Gov. Scott Walker] trying to take away the rights of workers to come together to bargain . . . .”

But in fact, Governor Walker’s budget will help the vast majority of workers in the state. Mr. Trumka naturally wants to make it appear that he is fighting for workers generally, but that is not the case. He is just fighting for some workers, but he is hurting other workers -- other union workers who are laid off because the state cannot afford them or other workers who are forced to pay higher taxes.

Unions are harmful because they act as monopolies. If the union members won’t work, the law makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to step in and do their jobs. As a result, union workers have little competition -- so they can demand higher wages and do less work.

By threatening to stop work if companies don’t pay employees more, unions force companies to layoff some workers. That hurts some union workers. Unions don't just pit workers against employers. They pit a select group of workers against consumers, stockholders, and other workers. Unions don't even make agreements that are in the interest of all their own workers, just those in the majority, usually just older workers with more seniority.

Suppose demands for higher wages or benefits means 20 percent of unionized workers would be fired. That isn't such a hard decision for a union. Twenty percent of its members will oppose the agreement, but they won't be union members for long. Most of the remaining 80 percent are likely to support the agreement.

Unions also protect seniority, not the most productive workers. When layoffs occur, it is the most recently hired workers who are laid off first.

Recently, there have been cases of teachers’ unions holding lotteries to see who gets laid off. When was the last time you saw a private company make hiring/firing decisions that way?

Union advocates talk about the "right" to collective bargaining, but it is unclear why this "right" trumps the right of other workers to have a job.

In Wisconsin, Governor Scott Walker threatened to lay off 6,000 workers if he wasn't able to get his union bill passed. But Trumka and other union members, over the objections of Wisconsin’s non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, claim that the layoffs are all part of budget trickery, alleging that Wisconsin actually has a budget surplus.

Bad corporate monopolies face competition. By restricting sales and raising prices, other companies see a chance to start producing the product and make profits.

There is a reason why only 6.9 percent of private sector workers are in unions. Unions have tried reduce this competition by representing the workers in an entire industry, such as steel, cars, or coal mining. That way they can raise wages without worrying about non-union companies getting the jobs. But ultimately there is still competition from foreign workers. Unions help ship a lot of would be American jobs overseas.

So how do unions end up representing 36.2 percent of public sector workers? Simply put, they have an additional type of monopoly. Not only do unions have a monopoly in bargaining with the government, the government has a kind of monopoly as well.

Take education. Parents pay for public education through their property and other taxes -- whether they send their kids to public or private schools. Public schools must really be a lot worse than private ones before parents are willing to pay the public school taxes and still pay private school tuition on top of that -- effectively paying twice for school.

In contrast, private schools that kept paying more and more for teachers would quickly find themselves out of business. Not surprisingly, teacher unions not only oppose any weakening in their current rules that they alone represent teachers in any negotiations, but they also strongly oppose anything that would create competition for public schools, whether it be charter schools, vouchers or tax credits.

Gov. Walker was willing to compromise and let public employee unions negotiate over everything: salaries without limit, mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers. Yet, he drew the line at pensions, which have accumulated huge unfunded liabilities. At least voters could see the current costs of paying public employees higher salaries, but both politicians and unions have proven untrustworthy over the hidden long-term costs of these retirement payments. But even that was too much for the unions and their Democratic allies.

Wisconsin’s public employee unions have been problematic in another way: high mandatory dues. With union dues of $500 to $1,000, employees have had to give money to unions whether they approved of what they did with the money or not. Walker’s changes finally give government employees the choice of whether they would rather spend their money on something other than unions. The new law doesn’t supersede union contracts that are already in place.

Unfortunately, Wisconsin Secretary of State Doug La Follette, a Democrat, has taken the unprecedented practice of delaying a governor’s request to immediately publish the new law, a requirement that must be met before the law goes into effect. Delaying the publication date until March 25 allows unions and local Democrat officials around Wisconsin rush to pass contract extensions that protect unions from increased contributions to their pensions and health care benefits.

Few would sympathize with a company that raises prices by restricting the amount they produce, let alone supporting the government protecting the monopoly from competition. But unions do that and more, and they only accomplish this through government force.

Well-paid union members shouldn’t be given benefits at the expense of other Americans.

John R. Lott, Jr is a FoxNews.com contributor. He is an economist and author of ”More Guns, Less Crime” (University of Chicago Press, 2010).



[Linked Image]


Something clever here.

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Unions are harmful because they act as monopolies. If the union members won�t work, the law makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to step in and do their jobs. As a result, union workers have little competition -- so they can demand higher wages and do less work.


WTF..is there anything else that can be said about lazy, no good, extorting, overpaid, union workers?

Saw many people fired in my time, NOT ONCE did I see the union get a job back for a guy who deserved to be fired, not once.

Do less work? You guys really need to stop smoking Rush Limbaugh. In our country of corruption, influence, jobs moving over seas, you guys are getting hysterical about those who maybe make 20% more than their non-union counter parts.

I haven't listened to Rush for two weeks..how long can he go on railing on about union workers bringing down the country, every damned day, three hours a day, all the while ignoring anything relating to corruption by the wealthy? I bet just the money stashed in off-shore accounts by the super wealthy is a much bigger problem, when is Rush going to jump on that?

This is a case of Limbaugh and Hannity firing up their troops. Only place unions are bashed more than on Limbaugh or Hannity, is here at the fire.

You guys keep zeroing in on the 48K crowd, the rich love you for it.







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Originally Posted by highridge1
Unions have pushed so many jobs overseas that it's sickening. They have even admited that they don't give a crap about families and their kids.It's all about them robbing as much cash as they can..... Greed is what they are all about.
Not that unions arent to blame for making companys look for a way to make things cheeper, but the reason jobs go overseas in because they have no safety standards, no OSHA, no enviormental laws or rules to live up to, and they pay sweat shop wages at best, some places are much worse. The favorable trade tarrifs for other countrys dont help much either. Union or non its not a question of 20%-30% wage package difference, they pay a fraction of the wages they pay in the US, with no workmans comp insurace, medical, or any of the other things that are an automatic add on for an American worker union or not.


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Most today don't know or remember what it was like working before the 70's...

Hell they even complain about the existence of OSHA and the EPA...

But it was a GOP president that set both agency's on their path, and both agency's relied on the Unions for advice in safety standards and workers rights...

Complain all you like, but you'd complain one hell of a lot more if you had to work in the shape of thins as they were in the 50's and 60's...


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greed caused unions to come into existence, Corporate greed.
Now a working man, union or not has a 8 hour work week, weekends off and a fed law that says employers must pay overtime.
Not all bad.
The average union member is just a workin stiff from both sides of the political spectrum. Not organized labor.

how much greed is involved in most of these anti-union posts, when you all decry that "I can gat my piece of the pie mysef"

I get the feeling most of you would cut the legs right out from under the guys you work with to get advancement.

This screw everybody else I'll get mine attitude has something inherently wrong with it. I hope I never get to that spot.

Most of you will hire a mexican for next to nothing to clean your pool, your toilets and water your tomatoes, but are able to say that you don't contribute to the down slide of the middle class.

Instead of sending jobs overseas you as individuals import cheap labor and call yourselves american!

Good luck all you independant operators - I'm sure you got it nailed - and screw everybody else.

christian my ass.


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It isn't the typical Union worker that is the azzhole, it is the Union Leadership that is full of schmucks, some of my favorite folks are in Unions, AJ300MAG,284LUVR and numerous others, plus a number of my family are blue collar Union workers, it is the Upper Hierarchy that sucks dogs azz!


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Originally Posted by Kamerad_Les
It isn't the typical Union worker that is the azzhole, it is the Union Leadership that is full of schmucks,...

... it is the Upper Hierarchy that sucks dogs azz!

Then change the leadership.

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thats the problem from what I undertand the upper hierarchy is not an elected position.


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Originally Posted by Kamerad_Les
thats the problem from what I undertand the upper hierarchy is not an elected position.

They should unionize against the leadership and collectively bargain with them for elections and new rules. If they refuse, they can hold demonstrations, get media coverage and ...

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We have a sit rap here in the town I live in where the Union leadership 86D caused the members to be locked out and replaced because of unmeetable demands in what was the best employer in the area with the highest wages and benefits with no chance of a replacement vote who won? Russ

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How did union leadership cause the members to be locked out and replaced because of unmeetable demands...

The union ask for what the employees tell them to ask for.. The employer makes counter demands... and the employees vote on whether to except or make more counter demands...

Lockout occurs when neither side is willing to give or to negotiate... the company then does what it feels it has to do...

Union leaders (the high echelon included) are voted in by the union workers...

In damn near every contract I've been involved with, the union actually kept the workers from asking for the unreasonable...


Phil

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