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Haven't read the whole thread yet but so far I've seen a lot of theories about dogs that could kill "A" wolf.
Now the problem with that is wolves don't normally hunt/live/fight alone. So unless your chosen breed will work with others, just like a wolf pack does, then your chosen breed will be toast in no time.
For me a mixed pack of two or three fox terrier/Aussie cattledog crosses, a mastiff/pitty cross (if you can find one with brains), a couple of greyhound or whippet/collie/airedale crosses and a heeler/collie cross would be the most likely bunch to take on a wolf pack and have a chance of coming out even or ahead of the game.
The foxy/cattledog has brains, guts, agility and stamina.
The mastiff/pitty has brawn and absolutely no quit.
The greyhound or whippet/collie/airedale has brains, speed, agility and guts.
The heeler/collie has brains, agility and a natural inclination to hamstring an opponent.
Even with a pack like that I wouldn't put money on them beating wolves.
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That said, Pitbulls are my favorite dog and I have tremendous admiration for the little buggers. There are as loyal an animal as they come. My Dad had a son of one of my males named "Chuck." He weighed about 80lbs. I remember coming into the front room one evening watching my oldest daughter, she was using "Chucks" tail as a teething bone! He was just as happy as could be! I never told my wife about that little incident... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sounds like the last one I had, a solid chocolate pitty with a white stripe on his nose. We got him at two years old cause his previous owners had allowed him to do what he wanted ( I think they were a bit scared to assert dominance over him) I kept him out of the house till I was sure I had dominance then brought him in on a leash and kept him on a leash for a couple of weeks. Everytime he looked like doing something I wouldn't have liked he got put in his place, at the end of that time I let him off the leash and he was a perfect angel. Our daughter was about 2 at that stage and she used him as a pillow and a stuffed toy. She'd grab him round the neck and drag him round the house. That same dog I used to run on wild pigs and he was absolute hell, he got all his agression out there and was a real pleasure at home, like I said he was an angel round the house and I could control him round other dogs but god help anyone creeping round or coming to the house other than by the front door. He grabbed my hand once when I was playing with him and I have a scar from it but as soon as I yelped and he realised what he'd done he released and backed off. This was him: ![[Linked Image]](http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll288/she-dragon3/Picture034.jpg) This was a Mastfiff/pitty cross I had as well: ![[Linked Image]](http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll288/she-dragon3/IMAG0077.jpg)
The original international turd
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Louie licking his chops after his last woof. ![[Linked Image]](http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx98/NMHUNT/SANY0015.jpg)
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SLM, now THAT is a dog to be feared!!
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LOL, he thinks he should be feared.
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LOL, he thinks he should be feared. Definitely to be feared!!! If you're not careful you could trip over that dog and have a nasty fall.
The original international turd
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The answer to the original question is ... NONE. Wolves are professional killers and hunt in packs. Their bite force is dramatically higher than any domestic dog. They are very efficient at sizing up any opponents. Here in the Fairbanks area, every few years, a pack of predominantly black wolves - thought to be the pack from the upper Salcha River - cycles through the neighborhood, eating dogs. We've even found the remains of a Grizzly bear that had been eaten by wolves, close by. Wolves don't fight one on one. The only domestic dog that can prevail against wolves are those that have an armed human near by.
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Irish Wolfhounds. They were breed in Europe for hunting wolfs.
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LOL, he thinks he should be feared. Definitely to be feared!!! If you're not careful you could trip over that dog and have a nasty fall. TFF!! That's how he got his last wolf.
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You are absolutely misinformed. I actually have real world experience with that subject. If you read my post you will see why you are incorrect.m
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Before I get into this I want to express that NONE of what I am about to say are speculations.
I have been active in the fight against organized dog fighting for 30 years.
I have participated in busting these so called "tournaments" which are nothing more than sick games for psychopaths. Anyone who takes pleasure in animals of any kind suffering is one step away from being a human murderer.
What I have seen in my many years of busting dog fighting rings is that for the most part only so called fighting breeds are used. I said for the most part because there are also many "novelty" matches where a fighting breed such as a pitbull, Tosa Inu or Perro De Presa is matched against all kinds of other species...
Most often the wolf is used for these spectacles. The motivation of course is the age old question about who would win in a one on one fight.
I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty and without any speculation on my part that the wolf NEVER wins under these circumstances.
Novices are surprised when they hear what true dog men have known all along. Now please don't get me wrong. Being an animal lover and activist I am not here to diminish the wolf nor the dog... I am just here to share my real life discoveries with those of you who are speculating and are interested in finding out the truth to the question posted.
Indulge me if you will...
Nature made the wolf while man made canis familiaris.
When you look at natural K9s then you will see that the wolf has NONE of the shortcomings man made breeds suffer from. Nature knows best when it comes to creating a perfectly functioning member of the wild.
In order to create the perfect survivor there has to be balance. A survivor has to be well rounded and needs many different skills...
A Warrior dog does not need many different skills... It needs but ONE.
A survivor is NOT a warrior. It is a different talent altogether.
A survivor K9 has to be a good hunter with a keen sense of smell in order to find food. He has to be able to run fast enough to catch prey so he can eat and has to be SCARED enough to run from ANY confrontation not crucial to survival.
Since there are no vets in the wild a wolf could die even from a small wound which will go untreated...
A warrior K9 is a SPECIALIST at combat. It matters not if the warrior is a good hunter because his human will feed him. It matters not that the warrior has the best nose in the world because he does not need to find or hunt prey. It matters not if the warrior dog gets injured during a fight because vet care is available if his human cares to give it... The ONLY thing that matters is that the warrior is superior at ONE task... Fighting.
It is like comparing a trained human survival specialist to a UFC fighting champion...
Drop off the UFC champion in the jungle with no food or help and he will die a certain death. Because fighting is his only skill he simply does not have the tools to make it in that environment.
The survival specialist has all the skills needed to survive... Tough enough to fight for his life, knows what animals to run from, what animals to eat, how to kill them and how to find a way to maintain.
But...
If you put that survival specialist up against a UFC champion in a cage match then he is going to be beaten to a pulp.
I believe that both talents deserve equal respect...
I know that novices believe that the wolf is superior to all breeds of dog at every single task but... This is simply not true.
Canis familiaris has been specialized by man in order to make a particular breed superior to the wolf at a particular and SINGULAR task.
The greyhound is faster than the wolf...
The bloodhound has a better nose than the wolf...
The mastiff is more powerful than the wolf and so on...
But the all around best survivor is the wolf because he lives or dies based on his all around skills... Not just a singular one.
When man decided to "improve" on nature he did the following...
Let's say that we want to produce a dog that is a better fighter than the wolf then this is an easy task...
We start breeding for courage, skill and power above anything else... If we don't have to worry about creating an all around survivor then one single and extremely magnified skill will be our focus.
We eventually end up with a dog that will defeat the wolf in one on one combat but this warrior dog will not be on par with the wolf when it comes to surviving. It will beat the wolf at this one singular task but will be inferior in many other aspects.
If a well bred Tosa Inu was dropped off in the wild the dog would have almost zero chance of survival. Because man created a dog unafraid of anything. A dog that doesn't retreat will get injured even if he wins the fight. In the wild even a small injury that goes untreated will cause death.
The Tosa is NOT a survivor and cannot compete with the wolf on wolf territory.
If you put the wolf in a cage with the Tosa Inu the wolf has almost zero chance of survival because now the wolf is on Tosa territory.
Again... This is no guess on my part. In all of my years of trying to wipe out the inhumane atrocity called dog fighting I have never seen a wolf that survived against a true member of a fighting breed one on one.
A wolf NEEDS to have a certain amount of fear in order to avoid fights which are not important for survival. A dog which has been bred to be more brave, aggressive and powerful than a wolf will engage in fights which are not important for survival because the dog does not have the fear (survival instinct) to make it run when it should.
The reason why man made such a dog is also simple...
A wolf would not make a great guardian for man because he would only protect to a point. As soon as the wolf realizes that he could get seriously hurt then his survival instinct (fear) will kick in and he will run away leaving his human to fend for himself.
This is no guess on my part either. Being a complete K9oholic I have many friends who live with, protect and some even breed wolves. These people love and understand the wolf for what it is rather than what novices THINK the wolf is...
A dog which has been bred to be more brave and powerful than the wolf will continue protecting his human above and beyond what a wolf would or could do.
So for human needs the trade off makes sense...
The dog might not be as great a survivor in the wild but a much more effective guardian and protector for man than the wolf could ever be.
So while man improved on a certain aspect of the K9 species another part inevitably diminished.
I hope I was able to logically convey my experiences in regards to the original question. In closing I want to say one more thing...
I truly hope that this question was not based on someone having the desire to see a dog fight of any kind. People like Michael Vick and any dog fighters like him are mentally ill. It is a fact that every single mass murderer in history started out torturing and killing animals before moving on to the bigger "thrill" of killing humans.
Please...
If any of you ever come across information regarding people who fight dogs then please do the right thing. Report them to the authorities immediately.
Thank you for reading this admittedly long winded response.
Bless you all... You might believe that. A wild wolf one on one with any dog will win. You might have seen what you were told was a wolf. You might have seen a wolf raised in captivity in a cage. You might have seen a wild wolf recently captured in a cage. Those are all very different animals than a wild wolf in his element in his territory. A wild wolf is incredibly stressed in captivity, stressed to the point where they can die from that alone in a surprisingly short time. We see all the time here where wolves come into yards and kill dogs. We do not see wolves dieing in those attacks. It does not happen.
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Miles58
My family uses greater pyrenees to protect the sheep in montana and they are a match for wolves if the numbers are even. I have seen the dead wolves to prove it.
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A dog is basically a wolf, modified for certain desirable characteristics by humans.
A wolf is a generalist, but basically strenghts are for those things that promote survival. That means things that help with hunting prey. Wolves rarely fight, and then almost never to more then the lesser animals fleeing, and certainly aren't specialized in it. They survive as packs.
Against an AVERAGE dog the wolf would win, they are heavier and almost certainly smarter. Against a specialized fighting breed they would be savaged. Or would be smart enough to run.
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Ummmmmmmmmm lots of speculation as to what would do what to a wolf! Well I have raised a few dogs in my day and seen more than my share of so called "fighting dogs" those being several cross bred dogs and a few of the pure bred "pit-bulls" etc.
The one thing I do know, after being in the wild and seeing wolfs first hand, is that they are a Fighting Unit, they are pack oreinted, not solo like domesticated dogs. The wolfs are much heavier than most of our dog breeds and even most of the cross breeds used for hunting mountain lion and hogs etc.
Now I will speculate that a mature male wolf going up against a mature "Great Pyrennes" would have a tuff battle on his hands in the wild. However, that would never happen as the wolf is a pack killing machine. The Irish Wolf Hound of decades ago may have been able to ward off the wolf 1 on 1 but this again is simply speculation. They were used in packs to run down the wolfs!!! NOT FIGHT THEM, especially one on one.
The only dog like animal that would defeat a wolf in my opinion would be the African animal called the HYENA.
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You didn't read my post correctly. I said explicitly that what I said is NOT speculation. Any wolf expert knows that a cornered wolf fights HARDER than it does in the wild. If a wolf met a well bred pitbull in the wild one on one the confrontation would last seconds before the wolf would run. If a wolf is unable to run away because it is caged it will fight H A R D E R than it ever would in the wild. It still has absolutely zero chance of survival. You are a novice in regards to what I am talking about here. I have been personally involved over 1500 dog fighting busts on a global scale. Dog fighting is a HUGE problem which must be wiped out at any cost. The facts I spoke about earlier will always and forever be contested by novices. Just because a pack of wolves killed your neighbors GSD does not mean that they would have a snowball's chance in hell against a top fighting dog in a one on one confrontation. I KNOW this because I have SEEN it. My calling in life is to free man's best friend from the torture of dog fighting rings so it has brought me to the frontline of where it happens.
I will say it again... A single wolf in captivity fights more viciously than it would in the wild because nature allows him to flee... A cage does not.
In fact... I am willing to bet that PEOPLE fight harder if they cannot escape. When there is no chance of running away ALL species fight harder.
Last edited by LionMan; 03/21/11.
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A dog is basically a wolf, modified for certain desirable characteristics by humans.
A wolf is a generalist, but basically strenghts are for those things that promote survival. That means things that help with hunting prey. Wolves rarely fight, and then almost never to more then the lesser animals fleeing, and certainly aren't specialized in it. They survive as packs.
Against an AVERAGE dog the wolf would win, they are heavier and almost certainly smarter. Against a specialized fighting breed they would be savaged. Or would be smart enough to run.
You know your stuff. Bravo.
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You didn't read my post correctly. I said explicitly that what I said is NOT speculation. Any wolf expert knows that a cornered wolf fights HARDER than it does in the wild. If a wolf met a well bred pitbull in the wild one on one the confrontation would last seconds before the wolf would run. If a wolf is unable to run away because it is caged it will fight H A R D E R than it ever would in the wild. It still has absolutely zero chance of survival. You are a novice in regards to what I am talking about here. I have been personally involved over 1500 dog fighting busts on a global scale. Dog fighting is a HUGE problem which must be wiped out at any cost. The facts I spoke about earlier will always and forever be contested by novices. Just because a pack of wolves killed your neighbors GSD does not mean that they would have a snowball's chance in hell against a top fighting dog in a one on one confrontation. I KNOW this because I have SEEN it. My calling in life is to free man's best friend from the torture of dog fighting rings so it has brought me to the frontline of where it happens.
I will say it again... A single wolf in captivity fights more viciously than it would in the wild because nature allows him to flee... A cage does not.
In fact... I am willing to bet that PEOPLE fight harder if they cannot escape. When there is no chance of running away ALL species fight harder. You are wrong and you do not know what you are talking about. Wolves hunt and kill (and sometimes eat) dogs with regularity where I live. Dogs do not kill wolves here. It does not happen. I have lived around wild wolves since they had a bounty on them and I have neither seen nor heard any stories about dogs here killing wolves. It does not happen.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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You didn't read my post correctly. I said explicitly that what I said is NOT speculation. Any wolf expert knows that a cornered wolf fights HARDER than it does in the wild. If a wolf met a well bred pitbull in the wild one on one the confrontation would last seconds before the wolf would run. If a wolf is unable to run away because it is caged it will fight H A R D E R than it ever would in the wild. It still has absolutely zero chance of survival. You are a novice in regards to what I am talking about here. I have been personally involved over 1500 dog fighting busts on a global scale. Dog fighting is a HUGE problem which must be wiped out at any cost. The facts I spoke about earlier will always and forever be contested by novices. Just because a pack of wolves killed your neighbors GSD does not mean that they would have a snowball's chance in hell against a top fighting dog in a one on one confrontation. I KNOW this because I have SEEN it. My calling in life is to free man's best friend from the torture of dog fighting rings so it has brought me to the frontline of where it happens.
I will say it again... A single wolf in captivity fights more viciously than it would in the wild because nature allows him to flee... A cage does not.
In fact... I am willing to bet that PEOPLE fight harder if they cannot escape. When there is no chance of running away ALL species fight harder. You are wrong and you do not know what you are talking about. Wolves hunt and kill (and sometimes eat) dogs with regularity where I live. Dogs do not kill wolves here. It does not happen. I have lived around wild wolves since they had a bounty on them and I have neither seen nor heard any stories about dogs here killing wolves. It does not happen. You are obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer... I said that my statements are NOT, repeat N O T speculation. First off... What "KIND" of dogs are we talking about? Secondly... Wolves in the wild do not fight one on one. Thirdly... I don't know what I am talking about? How many dog fighting rings have YOU busted where wolves had been beaten up by pitbulls less than half the size of the wolf??? I have been doing this for DECADES! I am a huge fan of the wolf AND canis familiaris. I have one of the most extensive book collections on the subject in the world... I have dedicated my life to eradicating dog fighting and have learned a great deal about the subject in the process. In study and REAL LIFE. Wolves are SURVIVORS. Pitbulls, Perro De Preses and Tosa Inus are FIGHTERS. It is like comparing a survival expert with a UFC champion. Surviving and hunting is a different skill than all out combat. If you don't get that I can not explain it to you. You are simply missing the common sense gene. When wolves are being fought in these horrific spectacles it is not even done for competition. Because every dog man knows that NOBODY would bet a single penny on a wolf going against a fighter. These are simply novelty matches where everyone already knows the outcome. If a wolf would have even the slightest chance to EVER win a match then these monsters would fight wolves instead of fighting dogs. The reason why NOBODY races any other breed of dog against greyhounds is because NO other breed can run as fast. The wolf cannot run with the greyhound either. Read my original post and try to comprehend it... Remember... The funny looking black things are the letters... The reason why nobody uses NON fighting K9s in dog fighting events is because NOTHING other than a fighting breed can fight on that level.... N O T H I N G. The proof is in the pudding! I deal with the atrocity of dog fighting on a regular basis. You are just some person who lives somewhere who's NON fighting breed dogs have been killed by packs of wolves. Which is a completely different issue. Look... I am not here to try and grow you a brain. I am here to answer the original question which was "which breed of dog can go toe to toe with a wolf?" I answered the question from REAL life experience. Being ignorant is not a bad thing. Many people don't know many different things. That does not make someone stupid. BUT... Insisting on STAYING ignorant even in the face of facts now THAT makes someone stone cold stupid. Good luck and take care.
Last edited by LionMan; 03/21/11.
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Micheal Vick told me he has a dog that will tale on any wolf but he does not do that any more!
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Lionman since you just seemed to pop up on this forum, just what is your so called expertise? I have been around dogs for 45 friggin years before most even knew of Dog Fighting understand and in my neck of the woods "Ozarks of Missouri" there are some terrific fighting dogs in those hills you can bet you life on that for a fact.
I have seen the full blooded wolf and half breeds go toe the mark. Along with many various breeds of dogs in all sizes, shapes etc. I been breeding dogs for many years and I know first hand, not from reading books or a college professor telling my his theory's in a class room.
On dry land a wolf is just like a shark!!! He fears no other animal, not even the bear in the woods, he is also much smarter than the bear period. A pack of wolfs will deminish a bear in a heart beat. I personally think your all wet about the wolf and it's abilities to stand and fight.
Now as far as this fellow Vic, he never would come down to Arkansas or Missouri with his stable of dogs. He would have learned a lesson real quick and left a church mouse instead.
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