Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .44 mag. Hardcast Ammunition Advise

Very interesting JJ. You always have fascinating posts. E

It's a well known fact that the Model 29 cannot take the abuse of a steady diet of heavy bullets. 250s are not heavy -- barely over the standard weight of 240 grains. Start messing with heavies -- 300 grains or so, and see how much it can stand. They aren't even close to being in the same league as a Redhawk from a strength standpoint. Shoot some big, heavy-boned animals with your 250s and tell me how well they penetrate. For the record, I've never broken a Ruger!

So, add 20% in bullet weight and the poor Smiths just fall apart in a few rounds. Then why has mine held up so well for all these years ?
I'm calling BS. Smith did have a few problems with their 29's back when another company owned them. But those were remedied long ago. E

Your ignorance is showing again. I have had two of my 29s for a couple of decades and they will shoot themselves loose if you keep feeding them a steady diet of heavy bullets and loads. Again, 250s are not considered heavy bullets in .44 -- not by today's standards. They were not designed to withstand the abuse. The Redhawk is WAY beefier. The 29 is a fine revolver, but it has limits. I have experienced the cylinder rotating backwards under recoil using heavy bullets. I have also not been able to unlock and open the cylider because the pin that runs through the center of the cylinder peens itself, so it can't slide in the hole and therefore cannot unlock the latch. Why? Heavy bullets every time. They just weren't designed for the heavies.

Whit, so what is your reccomendation? Stick with 240's or maybe 270's with a 629?

A 300 works if you don't run it wide open, and they still penetrate a bunch anyway.

I use a 265 grain bullet (it actually casts out closer to 280 grains and I run that around 1,300 fps. I don't think 300s + are bad as long as you limit your use. I've used 320s, but again, limit the diet.

In your estimation then, would a steady diet of 270 grain Speers at 1300 fps be cause for worry?

I think they will eventually take their toll. Everything in moderation IMHO.

The Garret cartridges loads really pack some recoil in that Mtn Gun. I'm not sure what would give out first, the gun or the wrist/hand. I have shot about 75-100 thru that gun and it's fine, but they are brutal. It's not a macho thing, it's just simple physics. Those buggers recoil plenty!

From the 7.5" redhawk they are Okay, still a stiff recoil, but manageable. I doubt that there could be any damage to the gun from them. I'm no metallurgist or handgun design engineer, but I just don't see how those could be good for a S&W Mtn Gun if you were to shoot a few thousand of them. Not to mention the wrist and joint issues to your hand!

Might not be a bad idea to stop and think about what is required to "shoot loose" a modern 29/629 before going too much further. I don't think many guys shoot enough to wear out a S&W and I certainly don't see how the grossly over-build Ruger is the "better" solution. Of course I'm also not quite understanding the problem that 320gr pills are suppose to solve.

I have a tendency to translate "you need a Ruger" into "lets over-load the 44mag because we don't want to buy a 454/etc.".

there's a local guy who makes his own bullets
his company is called Mt. Baldy
i think he has a website
i bought a box of 300 grains and shot a coyote in the head with one
i'll use em for bear and people if the need arises

dla, .........excellent point! There are two crimp grooves on the 300grain XTP. One for Rugers and contenders or equal, and one for S&W's or other standard length cylinders.

You can certainly far exceed the "book" levels with the redhawk, but that that is not technically a "44 magnum" any longer. It's more like a 44 mag +P which is not apples and apples with this conversation. The loads I used in the Redhawk were too long to fit into the cylinder of the S&W anyway! Garrett cartridges would fit into both, but........ wow they would certainly get your attention!

That would be your interpretation. The .44 mag actually works quite well with 300 grain bullets at moderate velocities. Problem with the Smith is that with it you can't fully exploit the .44 mag. I'm not advocating maximum speed. dla, what is your prefered hunting load for the .44 mag? What if you're using a Model 29?

As per my postings on this, I must reiterate The most effective loads I have seen used on Black bears has been a 240gr XTP ( or typical quality hollow point) shot at maximum safe velocity. I loaded my last 500 or so on a borrowed Dillion press and they were shooting 1250fps. I've never had a failure or reason to change. This load has never failed to decide matters in an impressive way!

Using 300 grain hard cast bullets which have zipped through have caused me huge grief. You never even know if the animal was hit! They spin around and run off as if spooked, not hit!

The Theory is that the big HV hardcast bullets are the "be all -end all" to the handgun power factor. I don't see this as being even close to the truth. Experience seeing a few hundred bears shot shows very clearly the softer bullets have a far more devastating effect then those hard cast bullets on smaller softer big game cariboo/ cow elk size and under.

The heavy big game like bison, buffalo, bull elk, moose and large male wild hogs do absorb the hardcast bullets well. Black Bears are rather soft and fragile compared to the big ungulates. Nobody needs those 300gr HC bullets from the 44mag on them!

Not at a high velocity, JJ. You will exceed the bullet's ability to maintain its nose shape and hurt penetration. There's a limit to the amount of speed you want to push a hardcast bullet. I suspect the hardcast bullets you used didn't have a large meplat. Do you recall how big the meplat was? That really is key.

They are Randy Garretts bullets, what ever he is loading.

Never ever had a problem with a LFN, WLFN of WFN hard cast bullet doing the job to perfection. Heavy wieght bullet have always worked extremely well in the above configurations. I would trust my "bacon" to a quality hard cast bullet any day. If the shot a Bear caming towards me, deep (read that full lenght) penetration is a good thing and will anchor a Bear pronto.

I know that "Cottonstalk" has taken or been in on hundreds of Black Bear kills and his bullet of choice is HARD CAST LBT style bullets

This is very easy to answer---RECOIL, not pressure. When you approach 300 gr and over, the gun will have more recoil and that is what causes problems because the S&W has parts in positions that inertia tries to keep them in place.
I am not talking +P loadings, only moderate, accurate loads. Sure you can download and poop out the boolit but then why use the heavy one?
The S&W just comes into it's own at 240 gr but 250 is better with the twist rate and the rate will work with very heavy boolits but the gun starts to give up. A 265 gr boolit would be my limit and actually is super accurate and can be shot pretty fast.
I have owned a pile of S&W 29's and shot a few hundred thousand heavy loads without any harm, no stretching, no shooting a gun loose---nothing at all. It is a great gun.
Don't push boolit weight or it can fail when you need it most.
S&W came out with an enhanced model because of cylinder rotation but I don't know if it cured the problem. That little pin in the cylinder is too soft and can peen at the end so you can't open the gun. Simple inertia.
If you want to shoot heavy boolits, get a Ruger.
Get over the "overload" stuff, that is not true. Nobody should give up accuracy for a "hot" load. Most heavy boolit loads actually have less pressure then lighter bullets have.

Lets discuss bullet, boolit performance at .44 velocities. It appears to me that between 1300 and 1400 fps is ideal with hard cast and the weight is not important. 240 to 330 gr boolits fit fine. I will not get into alloy changes needed for slower or faster.
This velocity seems to hold true for any caliber from the .41 to the .500's using hard cast.
I shot only 3 deer with the 240 gr XTP before giving up because they ran off with a zero blood trails and I recovered all 3 with double lung shots behind the shoulder. Deer do not seem to feel the pain like a pig. A pig can go down fast but each animal will respond different to the same hit. If there are not 2 holes, you can lose any animal.
Here are the 3 bullets I recovered.

And now the damage from a hard cast. It is double what the 240 XTP ever made to the internals.