Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .44 mag. Hardcast Ammunition Advise

I just love the members of the church. Out come the dead animal pictures and other calibers - all because someone questioned the efficacy of their hardcast. I find it funny. Their reaction is so predictable. They can be played like an instrument.

Pretty clear to thinking people that both jacketed and cast have their place with the 44mag. I seriously don't understand all the animosity by the church members.

And just as predictably, you put nothing up of substance. So, what is your go-to .44 mag hunting load? I am surprised you have stuck it out this long in this thread. Usually, you take a shot and disappear like a thief in the night.

Again I ask, "have you taken any game with a handgun gun?? Any game at all?

Do you just spout off, or what?

I agree, they both have their place.

I personally don't like the limits and cost of jacketed bullets and have never witnessed a fault of a good hardcast bullet placed properly from the muzzle to 125 yards.

The older S/Ws can unlock and backup under heavy recoil but this was fixed when they went to the endurance package. That said they still are not as durable as say a Freedon Arms 83 or 97.

Or a Ruger

nor a Redhawk, Super Redhawk, Super Blackhawk, BFR, etc......

There were a few references to self defense with bad guys and that is 100% different. I don't want penetration for that.
My boolits will go through a whole house, out to the drive and destroy a car engine without even feeling the creep in the way.
The best thing in a house is a shotgun!
On the street I would not want a small caliber with hard bullets either, like a 9mm with the wrong bullet.
My reference to pigs would be close to a bear or any omnivorous animal, seems as if they react different to a hit then a herbivore.
I attribute that to more brain power since they are hunters and deploy strategy to get food. Pigs are smart. So don't you think they feel more pain and will come after you to get even?
Deer just know how to run and even the largest calibers sometimes get no reaction.
A man will usually drop when shot with anything, it takes drugs to remove the brain power.
Beside the point though because if any animal of any kind runs off out of sight or into thick stuff, you need a blood trail and that means 2 holes.
Now there are those that claim the energy is wasted if the bullet exits, that you need the "energy dump." False premise, it is what the bullet does inside before it exits.
This tree is 16" in diameter, shot with a .45 Colt and a .475. Notice the big grape vine is also cut and neither boolit could be found in the ground. Now I showed what the boolit does inside a deer.

How about complete penetration with 14 gallon jugs of water? See the first 4 that were blown sky high and the next 2 were split? If that is not enough from a hard cast, I have no idea what a guy is looking for!

If you don't go through bone first and the animal isn't too big, I figure a shot to the heart/lungs with a jhp will put them on the ground faster than the same shot with hard cast. Seems likely that a bear would respond to a chest shot differently for each type too.

Cottonstalk and JJHack have each tried both types of bullets and have come to different conclusions. Cottonstalk's 3 shot choices all involve hitting bone, could be that is the difference.

No, not true at all. The hard cast can make the same size wound channel but it will be longer, yet exit. Stop a bullet and it is over for more damage.
If I hit bone first, I want a cast boolit just like I want for any shot placement.
Use your head, adjust the alloy for the caliber and velocity and cast works for any animal on earth.
I have seen too many jacketed bullets fail.
You are thinking "energy dump" that is a myth.

If you want an animal on the ground guarrented at the shot, those are the spots to hit bullets not withstanding.

I shot a Fallow Deer with a wide meplat hard cast through both lungs from a 500 JRH and it took out a 3 to 4 inches diameter section of lunf tissue. That is a myth the wide meplat hard cast only leave caliber sized wound channel

If y'all think a hardcast bullet with a big meplat zips through flesh and does no damage, you need to perform some necropsies on animals shot with a WFN, WLN, LFN, etc. They do quite a bit of damage tend to break bones. You never know if a jacketed bullet is going to open up, or exit, etc. Too unreliable for me. But that's just me.

Whitworth, not just you!
Ever since the jacketed bullet was designed, the ammo makers have looked for performance so you can shoot any size animal. Most failed. They are still working but are getting real good at it.
What have they been looking for? Easy, results inside yet penetration with all kinds of calibers and velocities. THAT IS NOT EASY! They will never do it so they still make a different bullet for every purpose.
I find it funny they have been trying to maintain penetration yet we have guys that want to keep a bullet inside the animal?????

I am thinking tissue destruction, not energy dump.

"The hard cast can make the same size wound channel"
This is where we disagree...could be so, but I haven't seen it. I know I am not going to win this argument, so I am not going to try. Maybe when I am as old and wise as you I will have seen the light. I am not selling jhps as being a better all round bullet...just think thay have an advantage in that scenario. dvnv

"If you want an animal on the ground guarrented at the shot, those are the spots to hit bullets not withstanding."

Agreed

"I shot a Fallow Deer with a wide meplat hard cast through both lungs from a 500 JRH and it took out a 3 to 4 inches diameter section of lunf tissue. That is a myth the wide meplat hard cast only leave caliber sized wound channel"

If "took out" means converting to mush, I am thinking I'd see twice that diameter with my load.

Make your own tests, maybe just jugs of water or soaked phone books. Hard to test on animals unless you have a bunch around you and can poach!
Shoot a 310 gr or 320 gr WLN, WFN or RNFP at a little over 1300 fps and see what the penetration is along with the cavity size.
Now do the same with a 240 to 300 gr XTP.
I think you will be surprised.

Fellas, I did the same when I was young and could not shoot deer with a revolver. I looked for all the magic bullets and boolits. Soft lead, hollow points and jacketed that would blow a jug 30 feet up. It was fun and my thoughts were always "WOW, what would that do to a deer."
Well I was wrong and only animals on the ground or lost animals taught me a lesson.
Then I was able to revolver hunt and went to jacketed with mixed results that took much consideration. I was not seeing the bang-flop, huge internal damage results that jugs of water showed me. Heart shot deer only had a hole as did the lung shot deer that stopped bullets without a bone hit. I worried about a quartering shot or a bone hit so I went to cast boolits.
I will never go back!
At first I was confused with the internal damage from cast and could not believe how well they killed but I got over it.
I have around 400 deer kills with everything you can shoot them with from bows, muzzle loaders, rifles, shotguns, single shot pistols and revolvers.
If you don't like cast and have a ton or so of lead, send it to me!
Do you need a huge blown up hole at exit? NO, it was what happened inside that counts. Here is the exit from a hard cast that wiped out everything inside a deer, the lungs and heart were mush, yet no meat loss.

jjhack's experience focused on the bear's reaction to being hit with a jacketed hollow point versus wide-meplat hardcast.

It is the reaction that I found most interesting because it has much to do with stopping a bear attack. Whether or not his findings apply to coastal grizzlies is a different discussion, that requires different data.

I've played around some with Hornady's XTP in a couple calibers and have been impressed. The 240gr XTP in 44mag seems to be a well thought out bullet - and jjhack's experience shows that Hornady was serious about it's design. There are a lot of happy hunters who use the 240gr XTP in handgun, rifle and muzzleloader. What I find most interesting about the 240gr XTP is that they sell for less than Cast Performance hard cast.

One thing that needs to be mentioned,..all else being equal, cast bullets develope quite a bit more velocity/energy than jacketed.

Lubed lead is simply much more slippery than copper.

here is damage from a hard cast in .452.The damage is on par with what I've seen from an xtp.

And dla I choose not to have a reaction just end it.From what JJ has said he wants a reaction and death,I want to end the action.He is happy with his results,but it doesn't mean his results are what everyone wants.However I feel if his check had been from Speer or Nosler or Sierra we'd be talking about what JHPs they offer,this is just my opinion.