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My new "primitive weapon" for Louisiana deer season. This 45-70 will throw a Barnes 250 TSX downrange at 2,500 fps over a max dose of Vv 120 (Barnes load data). I've mounted a new Leupy 3.5-10x40 CDS and will have the ballistic turret calibrated for this load. The gun shoots about an inch at a hundred and does really well out to 300. Not much handicap with this primitive weapon... A tad heavy, but a great box stand rifle.

I bought this gun used. It has exceptional wood, and of course, the Badger Barrel. The previous owner had tuned the trigger to a clean 3#. He had a spread sheet of all types of B.P. loads, including duplex loads, all with velocities and accuracy data. I got it without the vernier sights, priced accordingly.

DF

That's a beauty. Lose the telscope and acquire a good set of compatible tang and front sights.

That would be an easy transition. But for deer hunting, that would be moving backwards. I have a 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps, with coin finish, and engraved. It has the Lee Shafer vernier long range rear and a bubble front sights. These Sharps were inported by Cabelas at one time. I got it used and it's all I need for traditional shooting.

DF

Odd looking with that scope on it. But if it works I guess it works. Lead at 1200 fps will kill'em just as dead as copper at 2,500.

Hard to get my mind around that rig, and how you plan to load and hunt with it, but whatever floats your boat.

That looks like exceptionally nice wood even as those Brownings go.

Paul

During the primitive weapon season this gun is legal, vs. a muzzle loader. It has no sling swivels so I carry it to the box blind in a case. I load it and lean it up in the corner. When I get a shot, I use my Leica range finder and dial in the range with the Leupy CDS turret. Then, it's just the matter of hitting the target. It's not a walking around type gun. Last year, I shot a hog thru the chest. The Barnes TSX went thru the hog's chest and fractured ribs on the far side as it exited. Hog was DRT, to say the least.

This seems to be an elegant solution to the primitive weapons challenge, at least IMHO. I'm sure it's a bit strange to the traditional shooters, but seems to work. I'm sure lead at 1,200 fps would work, the 250 gr. TSX at 2,500 fps is flatter and more powerful. And, it shoots right at an inch at a hundred.

DF

Why do you need flatter? You have a range finder.

Why do you need more powerful? Is dead not enough?

Perhaps you should ream that chamber to .450 NE and then it would be even flatter and even more powerful.

Not true, there is a huge difference between momentum and velocity. The rig sounds like it will do well the way it is set up. Sometimes you just gotta' have a scope.

If you say so

"Pay no attention to the little man behind the screen" A line from the Wizard of Oz, it applies here too.

You're not THAT little...

I'm a big advocate of "deader" and "flatter". Plus, it's different. No one else has one exactly like it. (They may not want one...!). My tastes change from time to time. This is just my "project de jour", if you get my drift...

It is a "screaming machine" and hits hard. With the CDS, I get only one compete turn of the top turret with a reset to 100 yds. With the arching, slower lead bullets, it wouldn't range as far as with the 250 gr. Barnes at 2,500 fps. I think this combo may range out to 450 yds. or so with a full turn. We'll have to see how it calibrates and how accurate it is at that distance. I need to chrono and get an exact velocity before I send the data to Leupold for them to laser scribe the CDS turret.

I had a Burris Signature with Ballistic Plex on this gun. It just so happened that with this load, the hash marks were right on at 150, 200 250 and 300, the latter on top of the duplex post. I could put three rounds on a pie plate at 300 yds. The problem with these set ups, the scope has to be a full power for the system to work. At full power, IIRC, 14X, the light was so dim, I couldn't see. This way, the power isn't a part of the ballistic program and can be adjusted independent of the CDS setting. I think the VX-3 has better glass than the Burris to begin with. This set up has to be better than that one... The Burris had a date with Ebay this summer.

DF

Sounds complicated and expensive. With my 40-70 Shiloh I have put 10 shots on quite a bit less than a pie plate at 600 yards. All I did was dial up the tang sight. Dialed it back down and put 10 in a 3 1/2 in. group at 300. 'Course that's old school and out of date and my preferred way.

Don't take that as a dig, it isn't. That's a good lookin' rifle and should shoot just as good with the right loads. It will darn sure drop game.

I've taken and witnessed the taking of a lot of big game. I'll confess to most of that being whitetails but there's been a fairly large variety. Mulies, hogs, elk, antelope, black bear and one moose. The first 20 or so years I used scoped bolt actions and/or lever actions with jacketed bullets. Since 1986 nearly all of my big game hunting has been with one variety of BPCR or another. Since 1976 I also used muzzleloaders shooting a patched round ball. The only difference I can honestly say that I have seen between performance on game of high velocity jacketed bullets and soft lead round balls or soft alloy lead bullets at moderate velocity is that the jacketed, high velocity rounds are more destructive. If the shot is well placed I do not believe one puts game down any quicker than the other. I'm not convinced, that if the proper cartridge or muzzleloader were used, there would be much if any difference on large, dangerous game. To qualify that, I do not have any personal experience to draw from regarding large, dangerous game. That comes under the heading of opinion.

I have one moose and one buffler credited to a genuine buffalo rifle and I assure you that the effect of a 540 grain slug at 1400 fps is absolutely devastating. Even my Newfie guide said right off the bat as soon as the smoke cleared that he had never seen a bull moose go down like that aka literally bodyslammed.The buffler was not much different. Jorge's buffler got knocked clean off its feet and landed legs up. 480 garin bullet at 1400 fps.

I have a Pedersoli Sharps (45-70) with a long range Lee Shaver vernier sight and could outfit this BPCR with same. For the type deer hunting I do here in Louisiana, I like a good scope and a ballistic turret.

That type hunting does sound like fun. Don't think I'm good enough to feel confident with that system. Better stick to what I'm comfortable with, what works for me.

DF

Moose, Newfoundland. Rifle:Original Sharps 45-110,


Buffler,Wyoming,rifle:Sharps 45-110




Your rifle is fully capable of this kind of results using straight BP and lead bullets. The Browning would be an easier carrying rifle and the 45-70 is a fine big game stomper with BP and lead. You would be amazed at just how much useable range you have at your disposal too. Use a 520 grain Lyman 457125 over 65 g pd ffg and it will do well over 200 yards if you take the time to learn the gun. WAAAAAYY too much fun!!!

It would take a good bit of R&D for me to get there. I just haven't put the necessary time into that pursuit, although it does look like a lot of fun.

Nice shooting. Great looking Sharps.

DF

I once read an essay on the five stages of a hunter. How I wish I'd kept that. It started out with a young or new hunter who just wanted to "get something", passed on to trophy hunting then hunting other bigger, different game in different places. I believe the next stage was "how" game was taken, the methods and tools used. I can't recall the last but I wouldn't be surprised if it were just happy to be out there. I'm at the 4th stage, the "how". If I take a game animal there is certain criteria to be met. Modern equipment is not a part of that criteria. The essay went on to say that not all hunters pass through all stages nor was it considered a necessary process. Also that one could be in more than one stage at a time. It was really interesting to track oneself and/or compare friends to say nothing of the fact that it was a very good read. It isn't gospel, merely interesting.

ET, I shoot an NEI 480 grainer out of my 45-90...it is absolutely amazing what that bullet will do. Lengthways, brisket to ham, through a fair sized mulie. I can't imagine that bullet being deficient of anything on any game except possibly dangerous African game, and then only the really big nasties.

I'm not far up the totem pole regarding my hunting, but understand the process you're discussing. Have a friend who progressed all the way to killing a deer with a spear. He publicized his exploits, his PR getting him in trouble, as there is NO spear season in the state. He even went to Africa and killed an elephant with a spear, filming the entire event. Got in trouble, his DVD used as the main evidence against him. It casued with an international incident because there's no spear season over there, either. But, due to an international treaty, he was in Fed. Court here for the "crime" over there. Had to pay a hefty fine and was banned from hunting for several years, here and abroad. I think his PH had to finish the pachyderm with a big double gun... As I recall, the PH also had to pay a fine.

So, I hear you, I just don't want to get too far into that process...

BP with the big guns does sound like fun and I do love shooting, maybe even more than hunting.

DF

Apparently, I was born into Stage 4

The spear thing has always interested me but, but illegal here too.