Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR BPCR Browning 45-70

Dirtfarmer, the 45-70 is about the easiest of the BP cartridges to get shooting quite well. Sights. Here is a pic of Jorge's Shiloh Sharps 45/110 and my old gun. The ladder sights on the barrels are actually very good and not too hard to regulate. If you can find one of those for your rifle, it would be an exceedingly trim package and shoot really nicely.

I wasn't born into "stage 4". I guess what was so interesting to me was I pretty much followed his observed "stages". 3 & 4 kinda mixed for a number of years but 3 is completely gone. If I get the chance at a really good animal I won't pass it up but I darn sure don't pursue horns or antlers like I used to. Now, after a few days hunting, if presented the opportunity I take something to end the season and get back to the rest of my life....too many interests. The only thing left that I really want is a good black bear, preferably taken with either my Jaeger or one of my double rifles.

dirt, a spear? wow....more sand than I've got. Your friend must have deep pockets and huge cojones! I think in Missouri one can now use an atlatl. I don't believe that will ever make my "how" list.

Interesting reading, this thread.
The quote above.....did he kill the elephant or not? From what I read there, he tried and didn't succeed.

The late Peter Capstick has a story about his own adventure trying to take a Cape Buffalo with a spear. Don't remember the title.
Also...trying to understand the state laws by you that allow such an obviously modern setup to be used as a primitive weapon. Ain't nothing primitive about it. Works to your advantage, though. Lawmakers...make ya wonder sometimes.
Pete

He stuck the elephant with the specially made, take down spear he had crafted for that gig. He practiced with it until he was really pretty good. I think the elephant technically died from a dose of lead from a .470 double gun, per his PH. Strangely, his defense in Federal Court was the animal technically died from a gunshot wound, not from the spear. The judge wasn't that impressed with this defense strategy and my buddy paid a hefty fine and lost a year of hunting, world wide, not to mention his legal fees.

The prior state charge for the deer caper was with a hand crafted, primitive spear that still hangs at his camp. It looks to be about 10' long with a 8" blade. He ambushed the deer from a tree stand. Had it not been published in the news paper, he may have walked. This same guy killed a deer at a mile with a big .50 BMG, all on camera.

I think this guy must be at state 6 or better...

DF

Your friend sounds like an idiot to me.

To me and a bunch of us who know him!

But the guy has done so many good things. He's great with kids, helping them get started with hunting. He's been so successful with QDMA programs and in his developing own property. He's one of the best QDMA fund raisers in the country. He seems compulsive when it comes to these things.

Once he's on a trail, he's like a hard headed dog. You 'bout gotta knock him in the head to get him off that trial...

DF

One slip up by a PH in Africa and that wouldn't have been a problem!!!! Stomped into mush comes to mind.

Yeah, it was pretty dumb. The PH should have known better, in fact got in trouble and paid a healthy fine to his government. Sticking a whitetail with a spear, a creature that doesn't bite, is one thing. Going up against an elephant with something like that is not too bright...

Filming the whole thing and making those DVD's available is even less smart. That DVD was the court evidence used to convict him...

Otherwise, not a bad guy. If you met him, you would like him...

DF

I don't think he sounds so stupid for trying to kill something with a spear.

That is was illegal, is an issue, but not one that makes him stupid - just criminal. The stupid part was recording it and letting those recordings get out.

Once upon a time, men killed mastadon and mammoth with spears made of rocks and steel. They were not stupid at all. Just hungry.

Here are some photos of the great wood on the BPCR that the other photos didn't show as well.

DF

I know it's a matter of taste and preference and it's certianly your rifle...but man...what a gorgeous rifle....scoping it just takes away from those beautiful lines.

Sharps,

I don't disagree. The Leupy does distract from that classic look. But, I can always rig it back to the original look, the rifle doesn't suffer from this exercise. In the meantime, function over form; it's a great primitive weapon for deer hunting. In fact, it's the best primitive weapon I've encountered here in Louisiana. Of course, I wouldn't want to brag....! But as certain un-named contributors here on the Fire have so often stated, "Facts is facts."

Thanks for those kind words about the gun. It is an exceptional example of the Browning BPCR. These guns are really a lot of bang for the buck. The gun is made, as you know, by Miroku in Japan for Browning. But, the barrel is a Badger made in the USA. Just the blanks cost around $400, in line with Krieger and other premium barrels. It seems that Browning ships Badger barrels and fancy American walnut to Japan and this is what returns.

DF

BTW, here's another of my family of 45-70 guns. It's a Pedersoli Sharps with Lee Shaver long range vernier rear and bubble level front. So, I'm not without vintage firepower, some of which aren't contaminated by those new fangled Leupolds messing up the profile...

I'm not too far out of the loop...

DF

Why not hunt with the Pedersoli and black powder?

I could. I just don't like BP that much. I know that smokeless stuff is just a passing fad...

My eyes need the Leupold. Those vernier sights are better for targets, not the best in Louisiana woods. I'd hate to miss out on a fine trophy because I was limited to peep sights. I need all the advantage I can get.

Just me.

DF

"Once upon a time, men killed mastadon and mammoth with spears made of rocks and steel. They were not stupid at all. Just hungry."

Well...sorta....they didn't have metals....so it was rocks and such. Evidence....what there is of it... suggests that the animals were lured into a trap of some kind and pretty much immobilized - a pit trap has been suggested - and then killed. One would also think that the killing would have been a tribal endeavor as opposed to one man with a spear.
Pete

Nice Pedersoli dirt. Louisiana obviously has some interesting laws regarding its definition of "primitive". Of course, I guess that truly depends on how many years ago one considers primitive. A computer from a mere 20 years ago is primitive by todays standards. Would Louisiana law allow a double rifle from the 1870's-1880's as primitive, or does it have to be a single shot?

I've hunted some pretty thick stuff in Alabama, assuming La. is similar I understand what you're sayin'.

Has to be a single shot with an external hammer, no ejector and must be an 1800's design. So a Ruger #1 won't work, and for sure, no double guns, hammered or hammerless. There could be a specific 1800's date mentioned, but I'm not sure. Must be a design used back then.

I was trying to use the best equipment that would technically meet those criteria and use the latest optics, as that topic wasn't specifically addressed in the regs, just the gun. The Leupold CDS, ballistic turret, calibrated to this specific 45-70 load, extends the effectiveness of the gun out past 300 yds. How far beyond that, I'm not sure, but I'll find out.

Will update when data is available.

DF

Ok. What I gather from your post is that neither of my double rifles are eligible. Are they excluded specifically, as in does the reg actually mention doubles? Reason I ask is because both of my doubles are originals from the 1870's-1880's. That's rather convicting evidence they are from the era. And it's no big deal...just curious.

It limits the qualified rifles to period designed and manufactured single shots as described above and even provides a specific list by type and model. So, it doesn't exclude any specific rifles or types, only includes the ones they've listed. I guess everything else is excluded by default.

I think any rifle utilized during that specified season needs to be on the list to avoid problems with the Game Wardens.

DF