Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Lee Collet Die Users - Torque wrench

I actually started a post about this same topic - however, in hindsight, the subject title could have been better.

In any case, the purpose of this post is twofold:

First, it is to let Lee Collet Die users know about a new (at least to me) product called the "consistent crimp" - a torque wrench-like handle for reloading presses that lets one know how much torque they are applying (i.e., to let you know when you have applied 25 lbs of pressure recommended for the Lee Collet Die).to determine how much torque they are applying (i.e., determine when you are applying 25 lbs of torque).

Second, it is to solicit any reviews from those who have used this product. Does it work as advertised? Are you satisfied with its performance?

The Lee Collet die is not a crimping die, it is a neck resizing die.
The Lee Rifle Factory Crimp die is to provide consistent ignition in rifle cartridges.
The Lee Handgun Crimp die is designed to keep the bullets from moving forward in a revolver and to ensure reliable functioning in pistols. (Revolvers are NOT pistols)
Instructions that come with them are about idiot proof. No torque wrench needed.
The only place to ever use a wrench on a Lee die set is to tighten the decapping rod collet nut.

This gizmo being sold by http://precisionaccuracycompany.com/index.html is for crimping not neck sizing. I quote their Utube video:"the consistant crimp is ONLY used during the CRIMPING operation."

For "hunting accuracy" (1.5 MOA) the plain old RGB dies work fine and allow you to follow the KISS method. Having tried the Lee collet and factory crimp dies in "ordinary rifles" like 99s, M -70s, 7XXs, Savage bolts etc., they produce no better performance than any quality 2 die set (including RGBs).
For long range paper punching or varmints, dies like the Redding/RCBS collets or Wilson do make a difference on the assumption that you rifle (and shooter) is capable of shooting bugholes. IMO if you can afford a 1/2 MOA rifle and the scope to go with it, you can afford a $1000 reloading outfit, because unlike the rifle barrel, brass, bullets, powder, primers, it should outlast you.

Reloaders who are anal enough to worry about crimp pressure you should be spending thousands with Sinclair to buy Buggati Veron quality loading equipment not using F-150 level Lee stuff. In a bughole rifle I have never heard of crimping at all. The level of case prep done insures that every case is a virtual clone, therefore bullet pull is always the same.

Wilson does even make any crimping dies.

1.5 MOA is not usually good enough for me from my bolt action hunting rifles. I am admittedly anal about it. The point the OP was making was that the Lee Collet die calls for 25 lbs of torque and he was asking if anyone has used this product - a "torque wrench-like device" - in a similar application. They may not even be aware of the possible alternative use of their product. I don't think the OP is unaware of the difference between the Factory Crimp die and the Collet die, but I could be wrong.

My Tikka T-3 Lite in .243 shoots 1/2 MOA or better consistently with my handloads, loaded with a Lee Collet die, and did not cost over $600 or so. I have Savages, CZs and Kimbers that shoot just about as well or better. I don't need $1000 worth of reloading gear apiece to achieve that.

I find the Lee Collet dies do make a noticeable (at least to me) difference in the accuracy of my handloads.

Now does anyone have input on the original question? I am curious, too.

1.5 MOA will kill any big game shot at within ethical hunting ranges. Really 3 MOA will and most "hunters" would be hard put to hit a 9" pieplate every shot in field condition at 300 yards (that excludes benchrests mounted in pickups)

Killed all my Deer, Elk and Antelope with ordinary rifles, handloaded with ordinary equipment for the past 50 years. Some of my rifles shoot better than others but ALL will do 1.5 MOA in real world field conditions. 150+ animals in the pot, longest shot 352 yards using my Stetson as a rest, on top of a rock.

As the old timer said, "you can never get too close."

I have no doubt your hunting rifles may shoot an occasional 1/2 MOA 3 shot group off the bench, I must express my doubts that they will do it for 10 shots every day of the year.

Own 3 Tikka Target rifles (no longer made) and all of them (22-250, 6.5x55 and 308) will do 10 shot 1/2 MOA groups every day but at 12 pounds wearing Schmidt and Benders that cost 2&1/2 times the cost of the rifle they should.
All are loading with Redding collet dies in a Redding single stage press using the best brass, Berger bullets and electronically weighed charges.

Fun to ring the gong at obscene ranges and take out P-dogs at long range but totally unnecessary to whack an Elk at 150 yards.
Using that level of equipment in my 300 Savage 99 or 721 300 H&H would be a waste of time (Each has taken 25+ head of big game) and detract from time spent "being out among them" whether hunting or not.

More and more I see more "tactical types" and fewer and fewer hunters.

Best Elk hunter I ever knew used a 30-30 M94 carbine w/factory ammo. Died last year at 91, just after hunting season where he killed a dry cow at 38 paces.
He considered 100 yards a very "fur piece" ..... a real hunter.

Ever considered that the ultimate hunters (snipers) spend far less time obsessing over equipment than on "hunting technique"? Because the Afghan with the Mosin sniper rifle left over from WW II can kill you at 500 meters if he can see you and you not him ..... regardless of the fact that you have a 338 Lapua with a S&B that will kill at 1500 meters.

But I digress. A Lee single stage press with RGB dies and powder measured in the dipper will make ammo plenty good enough to kill 99% of real world big game shots.

Tupolevtu95, I am going to assume you were trying to be helpful, even if your post was anything but.

I got interested in Lee Collet Dies from post's I've read on this site. Unlike your experience with Lee Collet dies, many on this site have reported getting improved accuracy when using Lee Collet dies (in combination with Redding body dies and competition seaters). What I've found from previous posts are questions about how to know when 25lbs of torque has been applied - this tool seems to an accurate and consistent way of determining this.
I have since determined that at least one other Lee Collet Die user has already thought of the same application of this "consistent crimp" tool (i.e., "consistent crimp" + Lee Collet Die). Check-out the "ammonsmith" youtube video on using the Lee Collet Die and the "consistent crimp" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoSDA25HocQ.

As an aside, I agree, 1.5 MOA is acceptable hunting accuracy. However, I got into handloading (not reloading - I am unapologetically anal) for probably the same reason that many others on this site have - to improve on the accuracy they can get with factory ammo. Plus, it a fun hobby.

Okay, while you're cleaning primer pockets, I'll be out on the mountain.

I have done three extensive tests using the Consistent Crimp equipment. One test with a 223 bolt, one with a 243 bolt and the other with a stocker AR15.

I would posts links here to the board that I did it on or would be willing to share if you PM me.

You guys make the call. I promise you it is an eye opener.

Greg

PS: I have reconsidered. Here you go and if you all want to discuss my results feel free.

My studies and results enjoy. #1 is a 223 Varmint, #2 is a 243 BDL and #3 is a basic AR15.

Greg

CC #1

CC #2

CC #3

Handloading is different than reloading. Anal be darned. I want my hunting stuff to shoot bug holes if it can!!
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GLShooter

Thanks GLShooter,

An excellent read - more than I could have hoped for. I guess I will be adding a new toy to my handloading bench.