Home Forums Reloading Shotshells Could use some sage advice

I'm getting to the point where I'm shooting enough shotshells now to justify reloading (that and the fact that I've got about 1000 20ga AA hulls piling up).

Experience has taught me that buying right from the start will save me money in the long run. A perfect example is my upgrading of all of my rifle dies to Redding dies w/ comp seaters. Keeping that in mind I have a line on a couple of MEC 9000's set up for 20 gauge.

For those that do reload, what do you think of the MEC 9000 setup? Any tips or hints would be most appreciated. I'm fully aware of the differences in shotgun and rifle relaoding, in that it is unwise and dangerous to deviate from the exact recipe listed.

I also plan on loading some 28ga shells in the future. Is it feasible to get a conversion kit and swap the loader back and forth, or is it enough of a PITA to make getting a second loader worth while?

In general, what do you think of Unique powder? The reason I ask is that I've got 4 pounds of the stuff that were given to me, and I see that Alliant has recipes using it in both 20 and 28ga's witht eh hulls I plan on using.

Thanks

The 9000's are a pretty tough to beat volume reloader. Don't know that I would go to the trouble to convert one just pick up another in the gauge you want unless you just like to tinker at the bench. We have a good jobber in our area that has a good repore with MEC and service on any loader sent to them has been very good. Unique is a good choice for the lighter gauges-goes bang just fine in 20 ga. Makes a good pistol powder too....

Charlie, the MEC 9000 is good equipment, I don't know how
much you plan to shoot your 28 but myself I would get another whole set up for 28. I did the other thing for awhile
swapping between 12 and 20 and it gets to be a PITA. If you
go that route wait until you at least 500 hulls so you can make
enough to make worth the set up switch.

Thank you gentlemen. I don't shoot the 28 too much, although hopefully that will change. Perhaps a used 650N that's for sale close by will be a better option for the 28.

I don't know how much you shoot or what your budget is but the Ponsness-Warren line of shotshell reloaders is tough to beat if you shoot a lot plus the heads are relatively easy to change and are reasonably priced.

As my grandson would say..."The MECs are dial-up and the PW's are high-speed".

I've been using a 9000G for a number of years now and I'm very satisfied with it. My only complaint is that I need to be most observant of the primer feed; if it fails to drop a primer it will still drop powder and that creates a mess. Prior to the 9000G I had a 600 Jr., what a step up in performance.

I wouldn't try to switch a reloader from 20 to 28 and back, I would just buy the appropriate reloader for the other gauge. There are times I wish I hadn't sold my 600 Jr, I could have converted it to 20 as I don't shoot too many 20 gauge shells in a year, but it might be worth the effort for some skeet.

Good Luck in whatever you decide,
Bob

Thanks GB.

When I went to pick up the 9000 20gauge loader, the guy also had a 28 that I bought at the same time, along with a unopened 8lb jug of Longshot and an unopened 4lb jug of Universal.

Looks like I am in the shotshell reloading business now.

I shoot skeet tour. all summer long and shoot year around, the 9000 is hard to beat (i have 4 of them) I would tell you to buy the new primer feeder. it is about $50 but it will make your life so much better. I have talked to several shooter that put the new feeders on and nobody would very go back to the old spring and chain.

Also I would keep a copy of the manual close by until you get it kicking rounds out like you want. They are not hard to adjust but they do need twicking.

Last you said you had alot of 20 gauge AA around, don't mix the new style hull with the old style, they take different wads, and you will crush the new style hull if you put the old style wad in it.

good luck

Thank you pullit, that's some good advice.

I was just playing with the 20 gauge loader a few minutes ago and think I have a good idea of how things work. It'll get it's first workout tomorrow night.

You're the second person to warn me about the new vs. old style hulls. Luckily nearly all of mine are the new style, and I have the old style separated out. One of the guys I shoot with recommended that I go with Claybuster wads instead of the AA wads that came with the loader. He said that the AA wads would take more pressure (like 60lbs) to seat properly, does that sound like what you're talking about?

I picked up some Claybuster wads and the new style primer feed over the weekend. Hopefully I'll be shooting my reloads this coming weekend.

I have my presses set to where the wad presure gage just moves. This has worked for me on just about every wad I've used.
Claybuster makes a good wad but I have not used them in several years because of the plastic build up in the choke area of the barrel. I use PC wads in the 28 gauge and windjammer or Remington in the 20 gauge.
Don't be afraid to try the Remington STS hulls they load great as well.
If I can help you just let me know.

Pullit,
Well, I got her up and running last night and cranked out about 150 rounds. It did take a little while to get set up right, I ruined about 8 hulls getting the crimp just right. Then I spilled about a pound and a half of powder and shot because the #$%@^!$@#^ primer feed kept dropping the primers wrong and jamming up the whole deal.

After tweaking the drop tube, I was able to get the primers to drop correctly for the last 90+ loads, so I am hopeful.

That is good info about the STS hulls. I have a case of shells that a guy gave me when I bought a shotgun a while back. I was planning on using them for my sporting clays loads to keep them separate from my skeet and trap loads.

I think that I've got the 9000 whooped now, and understand how it works. Hopefully that should help me go a bit smoother from now on.

Cas
One trick I did to keep shot and powder from going everywhere ( and it will go everywhere) was to go to the dollar store and buy a cooking pan ( cookie sheet works to) and set the press down in the pan. I drilled my mounting holes in the pan and bolted the press thru the pan to the bench. When you do spill shot or powder most will go in the pan, not all over. I use a shop vac to clean the pan every once and a while.
One more thing, keep an eye on the spent primer tray, I have been known to really get loading and the next thing I know the primers have filled the tray and backed up the tube. The result will be that the lifting fork on the resizing station will not let the hull go down and the brass gets turned into an egg on the bottom <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (I hate to kill a hull).
I will try to take some Pic's of my set up and email them to you.
I drilled a hole in my bench about 2 months ago and let the spent primers fall thru the hole and down a tube and into a 5 gallon bucket. That cured that problem.
I did not mention that I converted my 20 and 28 gage loader to hydrolic. Sure did smooth things out.
Three more things that will help.
1) I think the powder baffle is a big plus. I do not like the plastic one. I use the metal one on all my presses.
2) I really suggest that you get the bottle support. I broke a shot bottle right where it screws into the press. This is a weak point and when you fill the bottle and start loading it really moves around. ( this is when I thought of using a pan) and yes the bottle was almost full.
3) I use a dryer sheet ( the type you use in your clothes dryer). I fold it up and put it in the powder bottle, it goes almost to the bottom of the bottle and sticks out the top of the bottle. It is held in place by the red stopper in the top of the bottle. This will just about eleminate the powder sticking to the sides of the bottle.
Hope this helps.

pullit,
Thanks again.

I've used the dryer sheet in my rifle reloading measure for years, so that was a first roder of duty. It really works well. I was also lucky in that both units came with the bottle supports. I agree that they are worthwhile.

That is a good idea about the cookie sheet. That is the next item on the shopping list.

The primers are kind of a pain. I just let them fall on the bench and vacummed them up with the shop vac every few minutes (I was vacuuming shot anyway!)

My next endeavor is to figure out a way to conveniently hold the hulls and wads for loading. I'm thinking that the plastic bins some hardware stores use for bolts would be good. Any thoughts?

I really do appreciate the input, you've been most helpful.

At my old house I drilled a hole (approx 2 1/2 dia) in the top of my bench and took a pvc pie reducer ( 4 inch down to 2") and had the shell drop ramp going into that. This let the shells fall into a 33 gallon trash can. At my new house I built all oak cabinets for my loading room. I made an error in my layout and did not account for the trash can, so I got a 12 x 18 (approx) box that is about 6 inches deep, I cut one edge just enough to let it slip under the chute. I can get about 400 to 500 shells in it. You do have to keep pushing and piling them up to allow room for more shells.(kind of a pain). I use a plastic tub for my wads (get one big enough to hold one whole bag). For hulls I use a cardboard box that will hold approx 300 to 400 hulls ( a target box works well) I tilt mine so that it faces me a little,(this way I dont alway have to reach over the edge). If you use a target box, on the end there are two panels, you can tear one off and this will give you easy access and still hold the hulls in.
By the way, how are you shooting, and what are you shooting?

pullit,

I shoot skeet mainly with some trap (although I get bored quickly with trap), and I just started shooting sporting clays.

How I shoot depends on the day. I am far from what I would call a good shot, although I am improving. I shoot around a 21 average for skeet. That damn high house on station 5 is my achilles heel.

My grandfather was a big Beretta fan and I caught the disease from him. My main target gun is a 687 Silver Pigeon 2 field, 20 + 28 combo, although I also shoot a nearly identical 12 gauge occasionally. I don't own a sporting model shotgun, although a heavier gun with 32" barrels has appealed to me on several occasions. The guys at the range drool over a Silverhawk 20 I picked up recently. It's got stunning wood, and that SxS is growing on my quickly.

What about you? What do you shoot?

Am not familiar with the MEC 9000, but over the years have worn out two MECs and a Hornidy shooting about 15-20K rounds per year. Have since purchased a Ponsness-Warren which is now about 15 years old. Personally would not own any other press. It has never been repair, nor has it ever left me down. Understand that conversion dies are available and easy to install. No personal experience, am a 12 guage guy and when shooting 20's always percahse them.

My MEC loaders are sitting gathering dust. How much are you guys paying for shot and powder these days? I am just buying AA's by the case and collecting hulls because that's cheeper than buying the components to reload them.

I would be very interested in what you are having to pay and where your sorces are.

I started out shooting a Browning grade 3 O/U and went to a Bretta 687EELL then bought a Krieghoff. I shoot skeet most of the time, I bought a new Bretta 391 Sporting 30 inch barrel gun to shoot trap and Sporting clay with. I have approx 300 round thru it so far and like it alot. I just bought a SKB 385 20/28 combo the other day and have not got a chance to shoot it yet.
As for the price of shot it is high, $18 per bag. I quite loading 12 ga myself and have been just saving hulls.
I load more 28 gage shells that anything, (because of the price of shot)
I am on the the way to gun range now I will let you know how I shot when I get back.

I paid $18 for shot, $106 for 8lbs of powder, $68 for 500 wads and $21 for 100 primers last weekend.

With my 20 gauge load, that works out to $2.58 per box, or about half what AA's cost me. I can't even buy Universals for that. Considering that I shot about 500 rounds last week, it's worth it to me to reload. When I wear out all of my hulls, I'll probably just buy several cases of AA shells though.

There is also a place around here that sells reclaimed shot for $10/25lbs. Some of the guys I shoot with use it and like the wide patterns it throws because of all the flat shot.

Well I just got back from the range. I started out like a house of fire, but the house burnt down before I got thru. Ran the first 50 then dropped high 2 and the option (durn you high 2) then the last box I dropped 1 at low 4.

I have never used reclaimed shot but I know people that have, they say it shoots fine for practice but when loading it will sometimes clog in the shot drop tube.

I think I'm going to Vandalia Ohio to the big trap shoot in about 2 weeks. I'm not shooting but I want to see the show. I went last year for the first time and it is something to see. every vendor will be there. This is going to be the last year that it is held there. I think I heard that they where moving it to Indiana I think.
I have a spread sheet that someone sent me to figure your cost of reloading. you just plug in the cost of shot, powder, wads, primers, and how much powder, and shot you are using, and it will figure your cost for each configuration.

You say that your breaking 21 or so that good. All my skeet buddies will tell you that I am going for the most improved shooter award <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> When I started I was 0 for 25 (honest, more than once). ( I found out that just because I'm left handed that does not make my left eye dominate <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />) It helps to use the right eye (no pun).
I've done alot better sence I switched to shooting right handed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I forgot to ask you have you ever seen the Todd Bender skeet tape?
It is worth getting imo

I sure haven't. Thanks for the tip.

The tape is great for getting the basics and I watch it 4 or 5 time a year or when I'm having trouble.

Cas

I pulled out my old reloading log book and see that I paid $9.00 for a 25 lb. bag of shot and $8.00 per pound of red dot when I bought my loader. At the time a box of 12 ga. AA's (1-1/8 oz.) cost $4.00. and I could load them for $2.60 per box. Today I pay $4.90 for the same AA loads and my loader is sitting un-used.

I suspose my problem is I like to practice with the same load I hunt with. I haven't shot skeet regularly in several years but I think I will want to start up again when I retire. I'll be looking for a nice little 28 double before then. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Meanwhile I have about 10,000 red AA's hulls stashed away in the attic because I might start bird hunting again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

PDS,
I'd love to see those prices again.

I tend to agree with you about practicing with your hunting load. In fact, I've shot AA Sporting Clays loads with 7 1/2's for all of my preserve hunting for pheasants, and all of my dove, quail and chukar hunting. I hope to duplicate the performance of that load for this upcoming season.

I've got a pretty nice Beretta 20/28 combo, and I love shooting that little 28. I also checked out the new CZ 28ga SxS the toher day, and there is a strong possibility that one of them will be coming home with me. They seem to be a great gun for the money, and one that I can have a lot of fun with until my daughter is old enough to tote a gun afield with me (although she insists that she wants a pink shotgun).

pullit,

Well, one of the guys I shoot with was watching me pretty closely the other day and thinks that my eye dominance changes depending on the station. I know that my left eye is normally dominant, so I keep both eyes open until right before I break the trigger most times.

On stations 3,4, and 5 I generally shoot with both eyes open all the time. My buddy said he could tell which eye I was sighting with by where the shot went. I was shooting ahead of the high house birds on the middle stations, but dusting the low house birds. Maybe I was picking up the low house with my right eye first, and the high house with my left eye.

I'm all screwed up, and am tempted to go back to shooting one-eyed.

An easy fix or to tell if this is ture or not is to put a peice of scotch tape on your non shooting eye ( on the lens of you glasses) The peice of tape needs to be about the size of a postage stamp. Place it right in front of your eye. It will alow you to shoot with both eyes open and make the uncovered eye be your dominate eye. you can try this for a while and if you do not like it just remove the tape. (no harm to your glasses).
You will have to get use to it, but it is not that hard, I did the same thing only to find I did not need the tape I just needed to KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BIRD. ( I wish I could remember that).
I have been known to see the bird but not look and focus on the bird. Like looking at your watch and a little later having to look at it again because you did not notice the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Todd Bender's tape tells you to look at the bird hard enough to see the rings on the target and to watch it spin.
Hope this helps, let me know how its going.

I shot 4 rounds this morning and did pretty well for me. I didn't tape my glasses yet (though I will), but instead slightly closed my left eye just enough to obscure the vision and force my right eye to take over. I did this each time just before I broke the bird.

My first round I ran all the way until my 24th shot, and missed it. I then busted the option to make my first 24 (my best yet). The next round I missed the high at #5 and the low at #9 again for a 23. My next two rounds were both 22, missing random shots.

I did have my 12ga out today, so that made hitting a bit easier.

One of the guys let me shoot a box of handloads using anly 7/8oz of shot at 1325fps. The recoil was barely noticeable, though the shot got to the target quite a bit quicker. I shot in front of one bird on 4 (I'll just blame it on the loads).

I gave the 28ga loader a workout last night for the first time, and it was so buggered up that I ruined about 15 hulls trying to get it right. The pre-crimp was set too high, and caused the crimp rod to crush the hull instad of closing it. The charge bar lock was bent and wouldn't lock the bar, so it spilled shot and powder all over. The shell lifter was set too low, and had some crud in it so it hung up. The primer drop tube was bent and dropped the primer next to the center spring every time. It was a mess, but I got it working great after about an hour.

Question for you though, the MEC bushing chart called for a #14 to drop 15.1gr of Longshot. The recipe called for 15.5, so I started with the #14 and tried to ream it out a little since it was dropping even lower than 15.1. I ended up using a #15 that dropped 15.5gr on the nose without modification. Is this normal to have them off that much? I checked my 20 with Universal, and it was just a hair light.

Great shooting, until I have several years of shooting any score with a 9* on the front of it looked good to me.

Let me know when you try the tape if it helpes.

Yes the powder bushing can be off alot. Even bushings with the same # can be off alot from bushing to bushing. I did use a univeral charge bar for years for two reasons, 1) to dial in the correct powder weight, 2) because I lived out in the country (still do) and nobody had bushing, so if I changed powder or wanted to try a new powder I had to order the bushing and wait.
I went to fix bushings about 2 years ago and really like them but I did some honing on them.
If I was just a little light I would rap sand paper around a wooden dowel and chuck it in a drill, if I was way off ( I have a Lablond lathe) I would chuck it in that and drill the next bigger drill size about 1/4 of the depth of the bushing, and try it. And repeat until I got it right. I have done several bushing for friends loader and even made bushing for sizes I did not have. It can be a pain.
One thing, the powder can be alot like a rifle powder dump in you will see varance in weight by the way you shake the press. I don't worry about .1 +/- wither way (maybe even .2)
The differance in vel. is so small that you will never see it and you will drive yourself crazy tring to make it hit the mark every time. ( hyd. unit that I added to my loaders helped it more than you would think. Most are dead nuts).
Just remember when you miss you had a 30 inch pattern not a bullet. The point is 15 maybe even 50 fps will not change your sight picture. It may mean you shoot the bird in the head or maybe the butt depends on your load, but broke is broke.

by the way I have a box of 7/8 oz 12 gage shell, have not tried them yet but I like the idea. I do shoot 1 oz alot (2 3/4 dram) and like them alot. If I shoot 1 1/8 oz I go for the lightest dram I can find. I don't need 3 or 3 3/4 dram to break clay birds at skeet.
just my 2 cents.

I have had a Mec Grabber for 25 years and it has been a great high Volume loader, my son and I shoot over 20,000 rounds a season. Mostly trap, also skeet ,sporting and hunting. I do my skeet shooting with a 20 guage low gun, More fun, better practise for hunting and sporting. So I bought a new grabber in 20 Gauge and have 2000 AA hulls, when ever I get low I load up 2 or 3 flats, keeps me going for a few months this is way less hassle than changing dies sets. if you put an adjustable charge bar on the mec loaders you will never have to buy bushings and will always be able to match any recipe. The bushing are always a compromise, even the mec bars are not accurate when you change shot sizes. The mecs are easy to operate, wear well, and if you need parts mec has them to you in days and always have great customer service. a lot of my trap shooting friends have Ponsness warren loaders which look like better machines but they cost 3 or 4 times as much make no better reloads and when they need repairs you had better count on sending it to the plant unless you are a machinist.

Am I glad that I found this thread! I currently have a 600JR in 28 ga. and since I recently got into skeet shooting I find that I need a progressive press to crank out all that extra ammo. I'm seriously looking at the MEC 9000 and will probably go that route. However, I have a question about adjustable charge bars. I have one on the 600. Will an adjustable bar work on the 9000 since the shot bottle is on the right instead of the left as on the 600?

Doug

Never mind, guys. Just answered my own question. I found the literature on the charge bar and I see that they make a separate model for the 9000.

Doug

I ended up buying the MEC 9000 and an adjustable charge bar to go with it. It took me a while to set it up and I had trouble with the charge bar failing to lock but I finally figured it out. I'm loading single shells at present to get the hang of it and will try loading multiple shells later today. The charge bar MEC supplied with the loader wasn't even close to 3/4 oz. of shot. The adjustable bar works great. I got the shot charge right with only one minor adjustment and the powder charge right on the first time.

Doug