Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Bear protection- Pepper Spray or pistol

I agree with 458 lott on bear spray.I had a young grizzly claim an elk I shot and bear spray wasn't a big thing then,you couldn't hardly find it.The game wardens said the bear was sprayed with bear spray and shot with rubber buckshot for raiding tents with food in them.It didn't stop him for a moment and the game wardens were trying to locate him to relocate to deeper woods.Pulling a trigger on a hand gun would be the last resort,flight over fight unless it comes to fight.All I have at the moment is a few 44 mags with 300 gr hard cast bullets,that will have to do.DropShot

Taking a yappy little dog with you would probably be a good idea. You'll at least be awake before Yogi gets to your tent, have your flashlight turned on, and have a round in the chamber. Plus the bear will probably eat the dog for an appetizer, giving you that much more time.

Back when Missouri had bears, a man was startled by a bear one Sunday morning and ran all the way to Church. He was nervous when services were over, so the minister advised him to pray.

Halfway home, he met the bear again and the chase began. Seeing he was losing ground, he dropped to his knees and prayed that the bear would become a christian.

It worked. The bear dropped to his knees beside him and started saying grace.

I like that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Can't remember where I read it - but I know I read it.

In a study of almost 100 grizzly bear charges - the guys who were defending themselves with a pistol were injured by the bear almost 50% of the time.

There were only three "failures" of people using EPA approved Bear spray's (and the EPA part was very important in the study - many non-approved sprays failed) and in each case the people shooting the spray were only slightly injured - more from the momentum of the bear, than anything. It was thought that they waited too long with bears that coming at too high a speed to stop fast enough.

In a new televised special the other week - they shot bear spray (with wild bears - while filming) that were deemed "predatory" (wanting to eat the human) and in each case with these very motivated bears - bears that could not be dissuaded by any normal means - when hit with the spray they swapped ends so fast, that you could hardly hear the "P" from the "Psssssssst" of the spray - then all you could see was a glimpse of their respective asses - as they vanished into the woods at high speeds.

I think the use of guns is more of a "macho" thing - than the "best" thing.

I've been charged by one bear (and bluff-charged by a few more) and was only forced to stop that one bear with deadly force.

It was two years ago, and occured while I was walking up a trail on a ridge above a corn-field behind my house that often contains twenty or more bears just prior to the corn being harvested.

As I walked up the steep trail, I glanced above me to see a bear about 20 yards away, with it's feet up on a log staring me down. The way it was looking at me was wrong. The body language was all wrong. It showed no fear.

As I started to unsling my Browning Stainless A Bolt 7mmSTW (a modified wildcat) - the bear charged - at full speed and with its ears back.

I shot, and it rolled down a ravine and crashed around a bit. With shaking hands I re-loaded, and then after waiting a minute or two to compose myself, went to look over the ridge.

The sight I saw almost sickened me.

There lay the bear - with three young cubs standing on and around it - and bawling. Next I did what I thought was right under the circumstances - I shot all three cubs - and went home feeling really sick and saddened.

I was packing bear spray - and if I lived my life over again - I wished I'd tried it. Perhaps I shouldn't second guess myself too much - as I'm still here, in one piece.

Going for the gun, as quickly as I did - was a practiced move - and at this point in my life - instinctive. But, I had bearspray on my belt - but my instinct to use my gun was much older and better developed from a lifetime of hunting and spending lots of time in the BC's woods. My "muscle-memory" didn't include a fast draw on the bear-spray holster.

It was one of the saddest day's in my hunting career.

Brian ..Your rifle saved your skin...that's why so many of your fellow hunters want to rely on lead instead of foo-foo spray

BCB;

Critters, all critters, including humans, are born to be food for something else. Those three cubs were dead, they just didn't know it yet. Your 7mm bullet was a LOT faster than starvation, or ravens, or other bear, or wolves/coyotes. Simple fact, man, that 2 out of the 3 wouldn't make the year, and the other wouldn't have made 5 is a pretty much done deal.

The fact that Momma was coming no holds barred meant she was coming - pepper spray or not. She died, or you died. You didn't miss, so you got to live. Had you missed, she woulda lived. It's that simple.

Would I feel bad in your situation? Yeah, I would. But, then again, I'm human - and a hunter - I feel those things. Would it change my mind about how I felt (read above)? Not in the least.

Pepper is for food.

I find your study on the effectiveness of bear spray suspicious.
"Not EPA approved" failed often ? How come ? The guys using the pistols got hurt 50% of time time ? Again, why ? Not EPA approved pistols ?
I thought you Canadians couldn't carry handguns for self protection. Where did you get the statistics and by whom was the study done ?
I've got very little faith in pepper spray. It's nothing but a nicer MACE. Uses pepper instead of teat gas. I've seen lots of MACE failures as a cop. No way I'm going to put my faith in pepper spray. I'm quite familar with the problems of using a handgun under stress. It's a better than nothing and works much more often than you'd think given the difficulties of it's use. E

Hiking/Backpacking here in Grizzly country: Pepper Spray
Hunting in Grizzly country: rifle
Packing out meat in Grizzly country: Pepper Spray and 357 pistol with 180 LBT's

I am surprised that no one has developed a large predator Taser with long barbs and appropriate voltage.

just a thought

brian

It wasn't my study...just my reading. It was based on bear attacks all over North America - not just Canada.

In the old day's many "non-approved" bear spray's were little more than glorified human strength (re:cop) sprays, or dog (re: mailman) strength "bear" sprays.

They had a less than steller record against bears.

In contrast, EPA approved bear sprays have a very good record - you do the research and check it out - I already did, and I know what I read. I'm sorry I can't provide it now.

I like to carry a .22 rimfire BearCat when backpacking. My last trip into bear country the guys were giving me grief about it. One of them said, "If you shoot a bear with that thing you'll just make it mad". I looked him in the eye and said "I don't intend to shoot the bear. I'm going to use it to shoot you in the kneecap so I can out run you."

That ended the discussion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Last time I bought a pack pistol the smith asked me if I was intending to use if for bear protection. I said yea of course... He told me if that's that case I should take a file and cut down the front sight.

After figuring I heard him right I asked him why, so there's no chance of the gun hanging up coming out or something?

He said "No, no... that way when you pull that thing out of your arse it won't scratch so much.... That's where the bears' gonna put it."

I still bought it and would have used it if needed of last resort.
Spot

Before anybody writes off the idea of bear spray, I highly recommend you invest some money, get yourself a can and touch it off in the back yard. I'll bet a lot of people who own a can have never done that. They're expensive.

I once bought some for a hike in Glacier National Park (didn't need to use it) and a few years later couldn't resist the idea of a little "target practice." Not being a total dunce, I faced downwind and, dang, I was impressed. These things blow out a lot of spray and there was enough in that can to spray Momma Bear, Poppa Bear and all the baby bears, too.

Try it and see.

Pistol. Harder to get a picture to post if you only hit him with pepper spray.

I am an O.C. instructor, and I have used it in the field with mostly good results on people. That said, I have had to fight like the devil with men I have sprayed and found that they weren't affected for whatever reason. Fighting men is one thing, I imagine fighting a bear would have a greater chance of being one sided.

I believe the non-approved bear spray BCB was referring to was the stuff without chlorofluorocarbon That is a major product in bear spray that makes the OC effective. In Canada a few years ago it was banned so Counter Assault took their spray off the market. At that point Gary Shelton (bear expert in British Colombia, book "Bear Encounter Survival Guide" well worth reading) rated the other bear sprays on the market there as effective less than 50% of the time. My understanding is that he now considers it effective over 75% of the time. One of the things about OC spray is that MOST carry an expiration date. Pay attention if you plan on using it. Also most police officers were (originally not sure about now) taught to shake their pepper every day to keep it mixed before going on duty. It's easy to make blanket statements that a handgun is more effective than spray but I can tell you that I am also aware of many situations where even with a rifle that was not the case and someone still died. You might feel better with it but now that my son is going down to Montana to college where I won't be there when he goes out in the woods he will have his Ruger Redhawk with good hard cast bullets but he WILL have bear spray as well. I am a died in the wool believer in my firearms for protection but different situations call for different strategies and I want him to have any tool necessary to get himself out of a fix. Predatory bears approach people differently than territorial bears who are just trying to send you a message to back off. It is encumbant to learn as much as you can about bears and to beable to read them and understand how much danger you are in as you can even while going out in the woods.

How does it make the OC effective? It's just a propellant....no?

Deploying OC during a bear attack would require proper training. One would do well to follow IGBC recommendations on choosing a bear spray (concentration, distance, duration, size, pattern, raw material, etc.). Keep in mind that field tests are too few and too confounded. In addition, there is a lack of sufficient incidents and those that are recorded have contradictory results. One must hit eyes and nose and the spray must be highly aerosolized to be properly inhaled, even then it may not work. Also realize that tests have proven that brown bears are attracted to the OC resin for up to 5 days after spray application.

I train w/ and deploy OC in my profession (ballistic stream to fogger). I personally think there would be too many variables to recommend that someone carry OC to replace a firearm in the unlikely event of an aggressive bear.

Gary

The bear spray I touched off in the back yard gave me something wider than a stream and more narrowly focused than a fog. It was a few years ago, but I seem to recall the most substantial portion of the spray was about four or five feet wide at a point about where I imagined a bear would be by the time I popped the top on her.

Speaking for myself, I've never taken a shot at a bear with any kind of firearm, never mind a .44 magnum revolver. I own a .44 magnum. I handload for it. I shoot it at the range. I like it. But to be perfectly honest, I'm not that great a shot with a handgun. I'm not sure I can penetrate the brain or upper spinal column of a charging 800-lb bear with the single shot that I would likely have time for.

I'm pretty sure I could nail her in the face with a four-foot wide spray of OC, though. When I'm in bear country, I'm playing the odds based on what I know of my personal abilities. In my case, and I can only speak on my own behalf, my odds of survival in a bear attack favor the use of the biggest can of bear spray I can find.

Maybe both methods would get me killed, but that's why they call them odds.