Home Forums Reloading Reloading Software Sierra Infinity v6 Suite ?

Has anybody here used either incarnation of Sierra's current Infinity software?

So far, from their descriptions on Sierra's ballistics web site, I can't tell the difference, other than price, between plain ol' v6 ($39.95) and the v6 "suite" ($59.95).

Either one seems to be vastly advanced over the old Sierra ballistics software that I lost in a computer crash (and can't find now).

So I aim to order one or the other package of the latest version, as soon as I can decide which one I want.

Dr. Howell, as soon as you could, would you give us a brief rundown on the differences between the Sierra software and Quickload? I am curious myself, and like manuals, I suppose the more references you have, the better.

I may be interested in a copy of the Sierra software if it would be a worthwhile addition.

Thank you
Vic

From the website given, seems the suite includes the reloading manual.

"... additional Reloading Data programs to calculate all the cartridge and reloading data included in the 5th Edition printed manuals, and the Reference materials from the 5th Edition printed manuals. Infinity is the fifth version of the Sierra Bullets exterior ballistics program. "

That may take a while, Vic, but I'll keep it in mind and will let everybody here know what I come-up with.

Can't afford both the plain and the "suite" on a fixed income of only $750 a month, so I'll buy just one and wonder about the other. Right now, I'm leaning toward the "suite" in blind confidence that as they usually do, the guys at Sierra will deliver all that the money's worth. But with my propane bill taking-up all but a very little of my income, I'm not going to be in a buying mode as soon as I'm going to be in a buying mood.

I've used well over a dozen ballistics programs since 1982, and I haven't yet found one that totally eclipses all the others. Some have better features, some are easier to use, and some (I suspect) are more accurate. So I use one for this, another for that, etc. So far, it'll take a right skookum program to wean me away from either of my two current favorites � Br�mel's QuickLOAD and Oehler's Ballistic Explorer.

Sierra's web-site write-up leads me to suspect that I may soon have a third "best favorite." I don't expect the new Sierra Infinity to be more accurate than, say, Pejsa's Ballistics, but the user interface may make more good features easier and sweeter to deal with than anything that I've been using so far.

I'm looking forward to finding-out. Since my shooting days are long gone and I've been so rudely dumped from Varmint Hunter Magazine, my uses for ballistics software are purely recreational, educational, and nostalgic. For a long time, I planned and prepared a long article or series to be titled "Burning the Midnight Powder" � on the relative merits of what I considered the best ballistics programs � but with no longer any affiliation with any magazine, I'm not as enthusiastic about that notion as I was.

I'm too dang old and worn to start all over, from scratch, as an unknown free-lancer.

I've used the 2 prior editions of Infinity. My biggest gripe is that you can not cut/paste any of the data. All I could seem to do is make a pic file or print a hard copy.

If I hear that the newest version has a cut/paste capability, I'll buy it but not otherwise.

That'd be a valuable asset for me, too. I'll be sure to check it out and let you know.

If nothing else, I can capture a screen (or part of one) with FullShot, which I have (www.inbit.com) � and have used to save and to e-mail images that I couldn't just C&P.

My old lost version of the Sierra ballistics, IIRC, antedates the "Infinity" label, so there'll surely be a lot in this new version that'll be new to me � more than would be new to you.

The "suite" has all the reloading manual, and Ballistics program on CD, the plain jane is only the ballistics software. Hope this helps. By the way the new version is still print only, no copy and paste functions.

Swifty

Thanks!

I didn't find the user interface to be very intuitive in the V5 suite. Most of the common functions were obvious but some of the less used functions required, to me, odd incantations of mouse clicks. It's all explained in the help function though and is learned quickly enough. The Suite version contained the handgun and rifle manuals, including all the technical articles from which I learned a lot.

I haven't used other external ballistics programs since the NRA published one in Basic long, long ago so I can't give comparisons. The Infinity program gives me everything I want and more including the ability to set environmental variables. And of course you can set BC for three velocity ranges though it has that data for only Sierra bullets, Sierra provides a single BC for other manufacturers' bullets. You can add custom bullets, say round ball in odd calibers for muzzle loading.

The only other (minor) annoyance is that you can set up the program for only five loads at a time. If you want to run a sixth load you have to overwrite the data in one of the five slots. I suspect it's because the graphing function allows you to overlay data for some or all of the five loads. (velocity, drop, energy, bullet path, wind drift)

Oh, another minor annoyance. For V5 at least, the distribution disk must be in the drive from which the program was installed for the program to run. An acceptable anti-piracy measure I think.

It's been a while, but I reviewed the V6 information on the Sierra site when V6 was released. I don't recall anything so compelling as to justify getting the new version, as I use it anyway.

1. The interface has changed for the better, but I bought the printed manual due to the fact I can take it from room to room. Plus it just gets smudged and bent instead of scratched and ruined.

2. Version 6 contains every manufactured bullet and their manufacturers BC for that bullet, not just Sierras. Also it now tells you the BC for 3 diffrent velocities ranges after inital values are set.

3. I mainly use the graphing function for looking at 5 diffrent velocities with one bullet, or 5 bullets with 1 velocity, or any combination of the 2, so its really not annoying to me at least.

4. Now everything is loaded onto the C drive, no disk needed to run.

5 It works better tan RCBS.Dotload, and is half the cost if not less. I have both and tried a bunch of others, so all in all I like it and use it the most.

Swifty

I'm especially interested in the "five loads at once" comparison.

The feature that I cherish and use the most in Oehler's (www.oehler-research.com) Ballistic Explorer is its ability to compare two or three loads on the same graph or in the same table.

I've long been "fixin' to" suggest that Rich Carlson (www.dexadine.com), the young genius behind Ballistic Explorer, expand that feature to five loads. More than five loads on one graph or in one table would, IMHO, be cluttered.

Just to tease you I put V5 graphs of what happened to be in the five slots into a PDF Here.

Round ball is such a miserable projectile it's a wonder that our forefathers killed anything, considering that a magnum is de rigueur for any animal larger than a jackrabbit.

I like it!

Thanks!

OK, I've taken the plunge � ordered the "Suite" flavor. Can't afford it, not sure that I can responsibly manage it, but what the hey! we ol' widowed phardts deserve a little splurge now 'n' then!

Wish me luck. I'm already somewhat in awe of all that it's supposed to do for me.

I'll let you know.

I've just ordered the Infinity v6 Suite a few minutes ago, so obviously I don't have it yet.

But FWIW while we wait, I was able to copy and paste this easily from the Sierra ballistics web site's sample of materials from the Suite �


I'll be mighty surprised if I won't also be able to copy and paste this and other stuff directly from the CD or my hard drive. I'll check that out, of course.

I've also looked further into the web site's list of materials that come in the Suite. Guys, that reference stuff alone is more than worth the difference in price between the "plain Jane" Infinity ballistics program and the Infinity Suite if you're interested in what all this exterior-ballistics lingo means or why bullets fly the way that they do. Bill McDonald and Ted Almgren know what they're talking about, and I get the impression that they're telling it straight here.

BTW, somebody asked earlier what's the difference between this new Sierra software and QuickLOAD. That's easy enough to answer right now � QuickLOAD covers interior ballistics, and Infinity covers exterior ballistics. QuickLOAD comes bundled with QuickTARGET, a superb exterior-ballistics program that doesn't offer all the features of Infinity but may be easier to use.

Ken, couldn't cut and paste the graphs from version 5, don't remember about the tables which probably means you can. I used PDF Creator to create the PDF file you linked to.

PDF Creator is freeware, you can download it here: sourceforge. Sourceforge is the repository for freeware and freeware/open source development.

PDF Creator appears in your list of printers. You print something like it was going to your printer except you select PDF Creator from the printer list. The file is converted to Postscript format, you can rearrange "printed" file order and collect them into one PDF document from within PDF Creator. A little frustrating at first to get it to do what you intend but not bad.

------------------

Well gee. Poked around the menu a bit and found File->Save Graph As...

Not supposed to be there, against Microsoft guidelines and how about every other program handles it. Guess I hadn't wanted to copy a graph badly enough to look carefully. And I've accused Apple of forcing one into a particular mindset on how something should be done...

Still, PDF Creator is handy for all sorts of things.

I'll bet you a 1/2 pint of homemade pepper jelly you will not be able to copy and paste bullet drop charts. And, I hope I lose.

Gee, that's a tempting inspiration to resort to some sort of devious dodge if all honest means fail!

If I e-mail you a .jpg file of a drop chart, will you post it here?

You can cut/paste tables in version 5.1 but again it's non-standard. Hold down the left mouse button to highlight the text you want to copy. The Ctrl/a shortcut won't work. After it's highlighted, copy to the clipboard using the Ctrl/c shortcut which DOES work. Then paste wherever in your usual way.

Ken, hope they fixed this mess in version 6 or you're taking notes. Probably should've PM'd this, huh?

For graphs you save the graph as an image in .BMP format or whatever format you like. Then use "Insert Image" to get it into your target program, Microsoft Word or whatever.

E-mail TEXT only from the Sierra Ballistics pgm. I may have not stated that but its what I meant.

Nighthawk-

I can not get it to highlight. Guess I'll keep trying.

I've been able to copy many a graphic and table and paste 'em � intact � as illustrations, into Word and Wordperfect files.

But pasting 'em into Campfire posts doesn't work, because the forum software jumbles 'em into Martian love notes.

The only way that I know how to get around that is to e-mail the copied item to someone who can then post it here.

(I've been unable to get anywhere with Photobucket.)

Once again, I gotta mention FullShot (www.inbit.com). Capture the screen (or selected portion), save it as a .jpg or whatever, and attach it to e-mail.

Simple.

BTDT, many times, with QuickLOAD, QuickDESIGN, and Ballistic Explorer stuff.

Like this from QL Target:

Table of Various Zero Ranges - Trajectory Path to LOS in inches
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range 100 yd. 200 yd. 300 yd. 400 yd. 500 yd. 600 yd. 700 yd. 800 yd. 900 yd. 1000 yd.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100 yd. Zero X -2.0 -8.7 -21.0 -40.2 -67.4 -105.8 -156.3 -223.1 -310.0
200 yd. Zero +1.0 X -5.7 -17.0 -35.2 -61.4 -98.8 -148.3 -214.1 -300.0
300 yd. Zero +2.9 +3.8 X -9.4 -25.7 -50.0 -85.5 -133.1 -197.0 -281.0
400 yd. Zero +5.3 +8.5 +7.1 X -13.9 -35.9 -69.0 -114.2 -175.8 -257.4
500 yd. Zero +8.0 +14.1 +15.4 +11.2 X -19.2 -49.4 -91.9 -150.7 -229.5
600 yd. Zero +11.2 +20.5 +25.0 +23.9 +16.0 X -27.1 -66.4 -122.0 -197.6
700 yd. Zero +15.1 +28.2 +36.6 +39.4 +35.3 +23.2 X -35.4 -87.1 -158.9
800 yd. Zero +19.5 +37.1 +49.9 +57.1 +57.4 +49.8 +31.0 X -47.3 -114.6
900 yd. Zero +24.8 +47.6 +65.7 +78.1 +83.7 +81.3 +67.8 +42.0 X -62.1
1000 yd. Zero +31.0 +60.0 +84.3 +103.0 +114.8 +118.6 +111.2 +91.7 +55.9 X

The problem is the tab character. The BBS editor strips tabs and spaces it thinks redundant. You can avoid this by placing text within a code block but the BBS editor doesn't know how the source set tab spacing. So things don't always line up. The only cure that I know of is to manually tweak the formatting.


Bend, odd that you can't get it to highlight, I have version 5.1. It was a free upgrade from 5.0.

I don't mind having to edit the out-of-line stuff. I do mind when I have to write it down then type it.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Thanks for that graph!

Is there a provision for making the trace lines wider?

You ask good questions, I'll have to look. There are graphing options that look infinitely abuseable. Remember that I'm using version 5.1, the version 6 interface may be different.

The answer is yes. The graphing module appears to be a third party package and has extensive setup options. Left click on a graph and a properties window pops up.

'Tain't easy bein' senile! Especially when you're gnawin' your nails to nubs in eager anticipation of special software that promises to fascinate old coots like "Aladdin O'Moore."

I'm especially curious about the new Infinity's design-your-own-bullet feature. I'm looking forward to playing around with that one. Bet it can pacify, puzzle, and foil this ol' fool for hours at a time!

I've designed and redesigned a few cast bullets for rifles and handguns but never a jacketed high-velocity rifle bullet. With the help of good software, I'd love to try-out a few comparisons, especially if the software would estimate the resulting ballistic coefficients �
� plain base versus boat tail,
� a variety of boat-tail shapes,
� tangent ogive versus secant ogive,
� a variety of secant-ogive arcs,
� etc
� not with the hope that I may some day design The World's Best Rifle Bullet but to learn more about how each of the different forms affects down-range performance.

What I most want to see, some day, is a practical way to derive or to predict ballistic coefficients in relation to their flight in air versus their flight in a vacuum. I used to think that that was what a ballistic coefficient was, but it isn't.

A bullet's ballistic coefficient is a numerical index of how its average flight compares with the heavily studied flight of a standard reference projectile � classically, the G-1 but later other standard references (G-7 is the latest that I've heard of).

Nothing else flies exactly like a G-1 except another G-1, and I'm pretty sure that any ten G-1s fly in as many as ten different ways. I'd love to see the day come when ballistic coefficients are more nearly precise, not just bushels of averages and guestimations.

Sierra 6 will let you control c copy and then past the tables. The part that is annoying is I can't seem to copy the column headers/titles.

You can save the graphs as bitmap or jpeg.

You can also do a print screen and paste it into paint/resize.

I have used and enjoyed it. It is easy to compare different loads or projectiles. HTH

Added- I can't get the custom bullet function to work.

I�m leaving the �fire for a while � maybe for good � but not without leaving y�all with a very weak and flimsy interim report of my struggles with Sierra Infinity Suite Six. For now, my advice is � if you have version V Suite and you�re fairly well satisfied with it, save your money for a while. Better men than I am may have more success with it, and a vastly improved Version Seven may come along soon. (Hint, hint, hint, Sierra!)

I have no earlier version to compare it to, and I�m having a hard time with it� just trying to do the specific things that I want to do with it, and comparing it with what some of y�all have already posted in this thread. For example �
� I can not get rid of the default traces in the comparison graph. I assume that it�s possible to do so, but I haven�t found a way to do it, or any instruction on how to do it.�
� Therefore, I haven�t been able to enter my own traces for comparison � one of the most compelling reasons that I had such high hopes for this obviously powerful but extremely disappointing and frustrating software.
� I�d like to be able to make one, two, or more of the load traces bolder. The function that someone has described above isn�t available in v6 Suite. I haven�t been able to make any of the traces heavier.
� I apparently expected too much of the ability to enter my own bullets. I�d hoped that it�d let me design new bullets, but it seems to allow no more than the addition of imaginary new bullet weights, etc. (I�m not complaining � just reporting.) It may be of some value when you want to enter new bullets that weren�t available when Suite Six was concocted.

I�ll just have to wrestle with it a bit longer, I reckon.

Oh, by the way � V6 Suite does NOT include the Sierra Manual. You can access ON-LINE the Sierra.com data base of handloads. The data base may include some loads that aren�t in the manual yet � and maybe weren�t even in the data base a week ago. You can plug a plus sign next to this feature! It�s probably better than having the manual on the CD while Sierra continues to test and add new loads to what will eventually be another Sierra manual some day in the future.




�I don�t do well with �instructions� that tell me such things as �with this vehicle, you can drive from any location on the west coast to any location on the east coast.� Dumb ol� me, I need detailed maps and related information. For me, the struggle with software isn�t the entertainment game that computer nerds and programmers apparently like to play around with and assume that we users do, too.

I have to be told how to open the door, so to speak, then � step-by-step �how to go inside and make myself at home without falling over furniture and stubbing my little toe in the dark before I can fumble around long enough to find the light switch � or at least a candle. �The light switch is just inside the door, shoulder-high on the hinge side. Turn it clockwise for ON and to make the light brighter, counter-clockwise to dim the light or to turn it OFF. There are also auxiliary lamps on the side table on the left side of the room and the desk near the far wall � both with traditional push-button switches in the rear of their bases. In the event of a power outage, candles and strike-anywhere matches are in the waist-high cabinet just to the left of the door.�



I hope that Version Seven will be worlds easier to use and will be more useful in a multitude of simple ways. Right now, I see plenty of possibilities for just that kind of improvement. Expert programmers � if there are any who�re sensitive and sympathetic to the user�s tastes and preferences � should find �em reasonably easy to provide. Try-and-cuss experimentation isn�t the best way to learn how to use any tool.

Sierra�s Infinity series is without doubt one of the best exterior-ballistics programs available. I just wish that Suite Six were easier to use. All my other disappointments are relatively easy to bear (and may not bother anyone else as much as they bother me). I wish that I could endorse it with unbridled enthusiasm. Maybe I�ll be able to later, when I�ve learned how to persuade it to do what it can do.

Thank you for the report, and I, for one, hope for your return to the 'fire.

Take care,
Vic

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Hi Ken, I lost track of this thread. Sorry. Have you gotten Infinity to work any better for you?

Spammers suck

Swifty

No.

I gave-up on it.

I think Sierra goofed big-time, whether on purpose or inadvertently, by dropping some of the best ancillary functions of version five.

I'm hoping that the next version (or an up-date patch) will restore 'em.

Mystifying that they'd do some of that. Did you speak to Sierra? For V5 at least, saying that using parts of the program was counter-intuitive would be kind.

Check your PMs.

Haven't been doing anything with ballistics software for some time now � have been spending all my time doing just two things �

� most of it just dealing with the infirmities of this declining carcass �

� stealing a few moments now 'n' then for a couple of other projects �
(a) reformatting and posting the foreword and fifteen chapters of an old 1986 book, In Step with the Master
(b) starting from scratch to rewrite another old 1986 book that a computer crash destroyed (Upon This Rock)

and of course reminiscing, as all we useless ol' farts do, more and more, as we fade
and
finding some amusement in old jokes, anecdotes, and never-to-be-forgotten escapades and adventures of long ago