|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,570
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,570 |
Wow, I guess I'm in the minority here: I would at least remain neutral on this one until all the facts come out, last time I checked the police are not the enemy, they are putting their butts on the line to protect us, just like that Marine did... Only reason I would call the 'police' or LE for ANYTHING is if the law requires that I do so, like traffic accident or similar. Stories like this Marine's senseless and unnecessary death do nothing but prove to me that 'gubmnt enforcers' and 'tax collectors' (ticket writers) are themselves TERRORISTS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
How can it not be safer and easier for everyone, to stop him out in the open in his car, getting in or out?
It would not be safer if he was a real bad guy that had voiced, or displayed, the potential to go down in smoke. Then you wouldn't want to do it in a house with 2 kids in it, right? Copper mines are usually rural, you control the where and when, much better than entering a house with kids, in an extremely crowded subdivision. I'm open to how that could be a safer option, I just can't envision the factors that would make it so.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
You never know. It may have been a overzealous decision by cops. It may have been the safest option available.
You're quite right, I don't know and I'm not going to call it either way... Its still a legitimate and not an unreasonable question to ask though, and something the follow up investigation would look into..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,777 Likes: 22
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,777 Likes: 22 |
Now I am willing to say that it smells less bad...but there are points that still don't add up to smelling good.
Still see no reason not to pick him up at work.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,551
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,551 |
We call that digging our corners. The cops pulling back is likely their training watered sown by the admin and lawyers. The military mission objective is a different animal from an LEO op. Our training is the product of your blood, sweat, guts and tears. You have acceptable losses to accomplish the objective. Civilian cops dont operate under that mantra. That's a different mindset. That's how we are trained, most times by former military shooters.
"I Birn Quhil I Se" MacLeod of Lewis
I Burn While I See
Hold Fast MacLeod of Harris
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,528 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,528 Likes: 4 |
Now I am willing to say that it smells less bad...but there are points that still don't add up to smelling good.
Still see no reason not to pick him up at work. If it were that easy there wouldn't have been a "Ruby Ridge" or "Waco". 
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Why don't you tell us exactly how you would have done it? First tell us what the guys history is, what the warrant(s) are for, and exactly what information you have received to indicate why you would do so.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,777 Likes: 22
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,777 Likes: 22 |
So they don't really know and "up to a minute"...could be 20 seconds apparently... with this group of Barney Pfifes as they didn't bother to time it and they apparently don't have a protocol for how long to wait after knocking. Never mind that "up to a minute" is enough time for someone to get out of bed, get dressed and answer the door? On what planet? Besides, if I hear someone banging on my door in the middle of the night, no way I'd be opening the door no matter what's being shouted. I might shout back that I'm calling the police. Might. You know how common it is for armed robbers to shout that they're the police? Police need to come back at a decent hour and act like the public servants they are, not like midnight execution squads.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
Who said it couldn't be brought up? Bringing it up has nothing to do with whether it's relevant or not.
The number of shots fired is relevant because one is not privileged to use more force than is necessary to neutralize a threat. Pretty hard to argue that it required sixty rounds to neutralize the threat. Not saying it's dispositive in itself, but it is considered relevant at trial when self-defense or defense of others is the defense. ========== If you carefully read the articles,you'd know that the police did not know the threat was immobilized. Further,a multidude of shooters changes that analysis completely. Obviously,how many times he was hit isa fact only known well after the shooting.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
We call that digging our corners. The cops pulling back is likely their training watered sown by the admin and lawyers. The military mission objective is a different animal from an LEO op. Our training is the product of your blood, sweat, guts and tears. You have acceptable losses to accomplish the objective. Civilian cops dont operate under that mantra. That's a different mindset. That's how we are trained, most times by former military shooters. ..and when we go in, the mindset that everybody but us is gonna die ain't an option.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
You know how common it is for armed robbers to shout that they're the police?
=============
Funny you bring that up since it appears there's some implied representation this dead man may have used police uniforms to participate in home invasions.The attorney for the heat said they seized what they expected to obatin during the search. We'll see.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,777 Likes: 22
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,777 Likes: 22 |
IDK...If someone yells "Police" and kicks in my door...I am unloading...why???Because I know there is no reason for them to kick in my door...even if they are police.
BINGO!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,528 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,528 Likes: 4 |
I'm kinda' surprised the police shot so well. Do they have to requalify again next year? 
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,570
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,570 |
Seems to me, the whole police culture has changed. When I was a kid, we were taught that cops were your friend, AND THEY WERE! Recently, (over the last 15 years, or so)I see cops in a lot of military-type clothing. Seems to me that "they" have become antagonistic "Rambo-wannabe's", or in plain language - The Enemy - to regular civilians.
Many ex-police that I know well agree. +1 I've known several [former, and not "retired"] cops say something similar!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
IDK...If someone yells "Police" and kicks in my door...I am unloading...why???Because I know there is no reason for them to kick in my door...even if they are police.
BINGO! ============= I think Baker meant his weapon,not unloading into his britches.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
I just had a really odd thought. WTF does this guy being a Marine have to do with anything?
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
Maybe it's a case of first impression!
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
We call that digging our corners. The cops pulling back is likely their training watered sown by the admin and lawyers. The military mission objective is a different animal from an LEO op. Our training is the product of your blood, sweat, guts and tears. You have acceptable losses to accomplish the objective. Civilian cops dont operate under that mantra. That's a different mindset. That's how we are trained, most times by former military shooters. ..and when we go in, the mindset that everybody but us is gonna die ain't an option. That isn't the military option in most instances either, if it were, a standoff (read JDAM) would have been used. We use shoot/no shoot targets in our scenarios, just like you do. Once that door charge goes off though, surprise, speed, and violence of action are all that keeps your team healthy, it is also the best way to protect innocent lives inside. Dithering on a building entry is like hanging out in the middle of the interstate.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Maybe it's a case of first impression! I think you have a scrip for something at Walgreens you really need to pick up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
I'll have to take your word for it, I've never been a SWAT type, though I've busted hundreds of doors as a narc, and used SWAT hundred's more. Unlike some people here, I ain't gonna pretend to know something I don't.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
|
|
|
|
|
579 members (1minute, 10gaugeman, 1lessdog, 1Longbow, 1936M71, 1800topsoil, 64 invisible),
2,377
guests, and
1,307
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,692
Posts18,494,126
Members73,977
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member651.png)
![[Linked Image]](http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr288/Bwnci/welsh-flag-large-anim.gif)
