Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting "Neutralizing" targets and other new-speak

Early on this board we had a wonderful discussion on the misuse of the word "weapon." Lots of folks chimed in defending the word and claiming it was their right to call their firearms weapons.
<br>
<br>The OED does not agree with that view and frankly it is a term I don't care for. It is needlessly aggressive, on top of being fundamentaly and literally wrong.
<br>
<br>On several posts on the initial LR thread, the term "neutralize" in reference to a deer or elk was used. Sorry, but that term really sucks to my sensitive ear. Here's why. Hunters are under a bunch of pressure on a lot of fronts to prove that we are not barbarous camoflaged louts with hunch backs, sloping foreheads and a double-wide parked in a maze of parted-out pintos.
<br>
<br>Everything we do that looks bad will be noticed. Turning hunting into a military excercise, complete with targets to be neutralized, will not sway anyone to our point of view.
<br>
<br>Not that they don't already have their minds made up, mind you, but coming at them like something out of Soldier of Fortune will scare the hell out of them.
<br>
<br>The sad part, to my way of thinking, is that the phrase appears to be used to soften the term kill... why? If you want to be direct about every other full-frontal attack on your 2nd Amendment rights, yet shrink back from the appropriate use of the word kill.
<br>
<br>I don't get it. Any body else offended by the term, or am I just a bleeding-heart?
<br>art

The term neutralize with reference to hunting seems overly callus. I'm not really offended by the term although its use generally is aligned with a military operation. Yes, Sitka you are just a big softy. Thanks for the oryx it was DEEELISH and not at all hard to chew:).pak

I'll bleed with you Sitka. I don't care for all the Capt. Midnight, para-military terms that seem to be the rage nowdays when applied to hunting. If we miss a shot and hit a tree are we to call that collateral damage? Maybe those terms are used because the users there of think they are in a war with game animals or are frustrated because they can't sign up with the foreign legion or something. Maybe it is because too many people have forgotten or never learned that if you want to eat beef steak you have to KILL cattle. All this nicey-poo, sanitized language gripes my constitution. Plain old Anglo-Saxon works fine to convey the thought and always has.
<br> BCR

When I did my stint to get certification as an NRA instructor. The one thing they empahsized most is not using the word weapon. Always use firearm, gun, rifle, weapons are used in war, firearms, rifles guns,are used in hunting and competition.

kill......killl.......Kill.....Killll....KIll......KIlll......KILL.....KILLLLL.........ahhhhh, I think I've got it now.

I think sometimes we try TOO hard to please the otherside and are definitions can get misconstrued. Good post.

One of the most striking language things that caught my and my spouse's ear when we moved to TX 14 years ago was that here, people don't "shoot" deer......they "kill" deer. Where I grew up, the common question and answer was "Did you shoot any deer?" "Ya, I shot two deer." Here in TX, it's "Did you kill any deer? "Ya, I killed two deer."
<br>
<br>When I asked one of my friends, his comment was:
<br>
<br>I've never thought about it before but I reckon you shoot guns and kill deer.......right?
<br>

Does this have anything to do with Poke and Hope shots, or sound shots ( I thought I heard something, so I shot at the noise)

THIS IS MY WEAPON.THIS IS MY GUN.THIS ONE'S FOR KILLIN.THIS ONE'S FOR FUN.Can't you guy's find anything more important to gripe about.Grow up!!!!!!!

Hey Boyd:
<br>
<br>Guess you have developed a thin skin lately. Try a smile every now and then.
<br>
<br>BTW, as Sitka Deer correctly pointed out in an earlier thread, and as the little ditty you quoted above refers to, weapon is not a correct usage as applied to a sporting firearm. Weapon specifically refers to arms used in combat. True, it is not going to end civilization as we know it if we misuse a term, but, for someone who deals in accuracy, I would think you would like to be accurate in your speech as well as your shooting. Same thing as calling a magazine a clip, etc.

No I don't have a thin skin.It was meant as a joke.O.K. HOW'S THIS.SPORTING WEAPON.....

Boyd
<br>I had appreciated the way you handled the debate on the long range thread and had given you some credit for it. I knew you were right, you knew you were right and you played the cards you were dealt in a very deliberate, mature manner.
<br>
<br>However, when confronted with a simple truth, where you could expand your knowledge base, maybe look at how you look to others and improve, this answer is the best you could come up with?
<br>
<br>I don't care how folks look at you for you, but rather on how you reflect on me and mine doing what I live to do. We are unfortunately stuck with you for spokesman everytime you open your mouth in public, or type a public reply.
<br>
<br>You, Sir, are an ass.
<br>best to you,
<br>art

That was very good.One other thing don't EVER call me sir.I like ass better.....Have a nice day......

I cannot believe that the word "neutralize" is an issue... I know these forums tend to be a place for people to hear themselves talk but common... you guys are upset over the word "neutralize"... Maybe Boyd has a law enforcement background, and that is a word he is familiar with. I have a law enforcement background and neutralize is a very accepted word for KILL. Granted it is used with a slightly different meaning but .... Many people talk many different ways... You ALL knew what he meant and you understood what he meant..... Why BITCH about the word he used... I'd much rather hear you bitch about how unethical he is at least with that you can have a debate...... sheeesh.... and I thought congress was bad....
<br>
<br>
<br>hhmmm maybe I'll go back and pick apart what sitka deer said.... hmmm
<br>
<br>"sensitive ear".... "well slap me in the ass and call me done"...... sensitive... we are talking about hunting here gentalmen the usually desired outcome of a hunting trip is to actually KILL and animal... "oh my" you mean taking the life of an animal... I can't bare the thought of it...
<br>
<br>Sway someone to our way of thinking.. there is no need to... let the facts speak for themselves huntng is needed as a managment tool.... let the tree huggers watch bambi starve to death. That will speak volumes....
<br>
<br>Hell I don't think they even read these forums and so what if they do....
<br>
<br>Accept the fact we hunt and "usually" Kill an animal at some point... accept the fact there are different ways to say kill...
<br>
<br>here's a thought Sitka Deer... You obioulsy think there are alot of people out there that are here to beat us down, demoralize us, ban hunting etc. well the last thing we need is a conflict from within over ONE freakin' word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW........I could'nt have said that any better if I was you.(Big Smile)

WyoWhisper
<br>You make several good points about eliminating conflicts. If you noticed, I said I had no problem with the word kill. The dictionary has a problem with the use of the word neutralize to mean kill. I was simply trying to make the point that language such as that is counter-productive to hunters' image. There is no point in hunters arguing over the word for the simple reasons that it is wrong, it is militaristic, it is overtly aggressive and those alone should keep people from using it, eliminating any kind of argument.
<br>
<br>And don't get caught up in the word militaristic as though I have said something to offend servicemen and women... my father was an AF col. and my brother is one. The point is that in the hunters' sphere it is inappropriate.
<br>
<br>As far as picking apart what I have to say... have at it. If I fail to use the right word and either fail to make my point clear or offend, I would happily change it or clarify.
<br>
<br>You would be surprised at the lengths the fund raisers for the antis will go for a sound byte for their newsletters.
<br>
<br>best to you
<br>art

Eliminate, OH NO HERE WE GO AGAIN. !!!!!!
<br>

OBLITERATE!!!!!!!!

Ok.. counterproductive..... I have it up to my A$$ with political correctness.... I live in a state where we don't worry so much about mr tight underware and miss panties up her crack.....and how they will be made to feel if I offer my opinion...
<br>so forgive me if I sound brash....
<br> If we go around worrying about who we "sound" bad to we'll forget to concentrate on our goal. The right to keep and bear arms...
<br>
<br>Tip over, anchor, pile drive, hammered, whacked, slammed, punched, poked, shot, grounded,clobbered, nailed, neutralized, WHATEVER... it all means killed...
<br>
<br>common fellas...... seriously.... all because of the word neutralized.............
<br>
<br>I don't always agree with what people say on here or how they say it , Even the way some of my friends say stuff on these boards, but I can accept the fact people say things differently... I KNOW WAHT THEY MEAN OR MEANT TO SAY .. I got their point.. I understand what they are trying to communicate...
<br>We all are not from the same town here.. hell wea re probobly from different countries here...
<br>
<br>lighten up.......

Here I come to save the day.Hi Ric..The reason I think that SOME people try to find SOMETHING wrong with EVERYTHING is because they gripe about one thing.Someone come's in tell's them how it is.They realize they don't have a clue why they are in an uproar so they move on to something else.I get very tired of people away's putting down the way we do thing's.There will alway's be someone tring to make something out of nothing.ALWAY'S......Later..... Boyd....

I started Long Range Hunting after a family dispute broke our hunting crew up and everyone went there seperate ways. I was 16 at the time. All of my uncles, my father and most of my cousins have since stopped hunting. I used to look forward to deer season and just being part of all the hunting fun. After several years of hunting on my own I ran into some older fellows long range hunting for bear. Just after I arrived (as a spectator mind you) a bear came over the mountain. I guess to see what he could see, anyhow these guys fired round no. 1 (High) right over his back. The bear ran uphill and farther away(increasing distance) they took clicks OFF their scope to account for rd no.1 (wrong move) and I knew it even though I knew nothing about this sport. Rd 2 (you guessed it LOW) the bear ran off unharmed. That Hooked Me right There. Then I starting asking alot of questions bought equiptment as I could afford it and haven't stopped since. I hunt LONG RANGE because I CHOOSE TO. I LOVE THIS SPORT OF HUNTING AND I THANK MY FATHER FOR TAKING ME WHEN I WAS ONLY 8 AND SHOWING ME. I have never forgot the things that dad tought me about the woods. Till this day everytime I here a bluejay start sqawking I'm lookin. My dad had quit hunting for 13yrs because he just couldn't get into it without the crew being together I guess. I ask him many times to go with us Long Range Hunting and he would never go. I believe he felt the same way alot of the folk on this forum feel about it. ITS NOT HUNTING. He never said that to me, but being from the old school I believe that is what he thought. Well I must have worn him thin cause three years ago he went with us one day, and he was hooked. Now he is an active member of our hunting party and getting quite good at it. I am really thankful that I had the opportunity to return the favor and reintroduce him into hunting. We now bow hunt together just him and I just like when I was younger and I savour every moment of it. I know there are alot of folks who dont understand or dont consider it hunting but I know it worked on one of the most bullheaded SOB's on the face of GODS green earth.
<br>I'm not here to recruit or to get into pissin contests about anything. I just love to long range hunt and I would like to share it with whoever will listen. Even if you never do it, you should understand it because its not gonna go away folks it is only gonna get bigger. I have 3 youngsters at home all well to young to hunt but when they are old enough to go, I will teach them woodsmanship just like my dad taught me and also they will be very proficient at long range hunting. They will choose their own path to follow someday, whichever it is (and I hope its both) They will be educated in all areas. LONG RANGE MEANS MORE TO ME THAN TAKING ANIMALS AT EXTENDED DISTANCES, NOMATTER WHAT PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE OUT OF IT, IT IS STILL HUNTING. STILL A PHONE CALL JUST A LONG DISTANCE PHONE CALL THAT COSTS A LITTLE MORE.

Think perhaps I have a clue to what happened to the other Long Range Board. Goodbye, good luck. -- no

Need one or anyone else on this Longrange hunting forum.
<br>
<br>Nothing happened on the other Long Range forum to Boyd or anyone else that frequints that site, at all.
<br>If someone gets out of line over there their posts are eleminated and they are banned from the forum. That's the way it was set up from the start.
<br>That is our main forum.
<br>Since a "LONGRANGE" spot has been created for LONGRANGE hunters over here and I presume all who have responded are Longrange hunters or interested in being a LR hunter, We will be glad to answer questions pertaining to our sport for those who want to learn from the experiance we have aquired over the years.
<br>We don't call people names and we try to answer questions as best we can, nothing more.
<br>
<br>As far as names for rifles are concerned, I call what I shoot, my "Longrange Rifle/s" and I "Kill" big game animals like deer and elk with it.
<br>I know 1000 yard match shooters who have named their rifles and have them painted with the names on them.
<br>I have seen "The exterminator"---"No fear"---"Bad Bear"
<br>and many other names that don't really come to mind at present.
<br>
<br>Anyway, I think we all can learn something on these forums from one another.
<br>
<br>If everyone were the the same, this would be a very boring World. We are all in the same family fraternity called, "Hunting" . As in all families, there are some disagreements from time to time. Thats fine because I'm sure we are all mature enough to override any disagreement.
<br>
<br>We should try to accept everyones right to hunt the way he or she chooses to do so, regardless of how we feel about it.
<br>
<br>Darryl Cassel

Sitka,
<br>Weapons are used for killing.
<br>I have never seen a critter surrender yet,therefore it is necessary to Kill them.
<br>The reference to battle isn't needed.
<br>All weapons were originally designed as "Dual purpose",meaning they can Kill,and save life at the same time.
<br>The foundations of hunting are from yonder years,when it meant starving or Killing.
<br>Same goes for "weapon".
<br>Lotsa Red coats were whacked with foraging guns in the hands of farmers.
<br>Lotsa NVA and cong were killed with Remmie 700's and 870's.
<br>If the other side hates to hear "Weapon",they need to move to a place where it rains Daisy petals,and critters don't starve in the winter.
<br>I hear your point.I just can't agree with it.
<br>Given proper reason,any firearm in my battery is a weapon.
<br>It's all a matter of perspective of who/what is on the receiving end.
<br>Cheers!
<br>E4E

E4E:
<br>
<br>Not quite correct. From Webster's unabridged: Weapon: 1. an instrument of any kind used for fighting.
<br>
<br>Therefore, if you use anything for combat, whether sticks, SAMs, or a Remington 700 it fulfills the definition of weapon. But if you wish to use the word correctly, it is not proper to describe anything used for hunting animals(as opposed to people)as a weapon. Frankly I thought Sitka Deer was nuts when he first brought this up and I rushed to prove him wrong(which is always fun, as we have a friendly rivally about such things, but, alas, it doesn't happen that often), but after consulting several references, I had to admit that he was in one of his rare correct modes. LOL
<br>
<br>Again, it is not the end of the world, but when you use the word weapon instead of rifle in a sporting sense it is both not technically correct and creates negative images to the public which we already have enough of. I might call a fore end a forearm and, while it is common usage it is not correct either. Same for magazine and clip.

E4E
<br>We went around on this once as I am sure you recall. The dictionary does not agree with you and it is just one of those things that hard-headed people want to stick on. Just remember this, lots of us spend lots of money trying to keep and enlarge the right to keep and bear arms. Everytime a statement is made that gets under a gun-banners skin they are more likely to cause donations to go to the wrong side. You make the job much harder for those you purport to support.
<br>
<br>It is not a big thing to realists, but we are not dealing with realists... Does it truly bother me to hear "neutralize?" Not really, but it does not make me feel like the hunter is hunting for the right reasons.
<br>
<br>It saddens me to read that you feel your firearms could easily go either way. A weapon is only a weapon if it is in an aggressor's hand. Defensive weaponry is an oxymoron.
<br>
<br>Rednecks and liberals do not think alike and liberals are also quite a bit smarter than rednecks, on average. They laugh at rednecks, and in very condescending ways. Playing into their hands is exactly what they want you to do.
<br>
<br>I have absolutely no beef with LR hunting, bow hunting, or any other legal form of hunting. I spend a fair piece of change each year defending that right. I simply wish that everybody would do a little bit to help. Not using the word neutralize is a tiny thing that would help, and wouldn't cost a dime.
<br>
<br>Agree with the NRA, or not, they are adamant that firearms are not weapons. The fact that most concealed-carry laws call them concealed weapons has caused difficulty in passing the legislation more than once.
<br>
<br>Most voters are not bright enough to know what they are voting on, and fewer take the time to even read the basic background info on any issue or politician. What they read on the opening line on the ballot is as far as they get. Are they more likely to vote for "concealed firearms" carry laws, or "concealed weapons."
<br>
<br>best to you
<br>art

IIFID
<br>I'm still smarting over the cherry s.g., if it makes you feel any better! LOL
<br>
<br>Thanks for the moral support, I was working on my last post when you answered.
<br>art

Gentlemen, like it or not, acknowledge it or not the tide is rising and is not expected to ebb anytime soon. This is the tide of the 'anti's' that is anti hunting, anti fishing, anti trapping anti guns, the list goes on and you get the idea. Like it or not politics are instrumental is how we conduct our activities. The anti's do not need to be numerous, just be able to get the ear of an elected offical. This could not be more clearly demonstrated than right here in Alaska. In many areas our moose populations are under very heavy predation from wolves and bears. Our governor, who has aspirations of higher office, will not make a decision on the control of these predators and insists that the situtation be studied and studied too death. The reason for his indecision is the wolf lovers have his ear and have intimidated him into thinking that if he should decide to control the predators his political future is finished. I believe Sitka is saying we can enjoy our activities but we have to be smart about how we present ourselves. The military would say 'warriors and gentlemen'. We have to be very smart about how we deal with these anti groups. We will not win or even maintain our position if we just attack head on or continue to believe that it is business as usual. It is block and parry. Sent a fighter head on into a boxer and he is toast. We can tie the dead animals on the fender of the car or we can put it under cover. I elect to put it under cover and I hope that my activities can be preserved for my great grand children and beyond. I'm thinking hunters, shooters, ladies and gentlemen.pak

sitka deer:
<br>I don't know if you are a bleeding heart(I don't know if you have ever voted for a president whose last name begins with "C") but I don't think so. Sounds to me like you are a guy who cherishes your privelege(note I did not say RIGHT) to go out and pursue your chosen passion. I too cherish my privelege. And I believe to call the death of a bull elk, at the hands of a long range marksman," neutralization" is at the very least misleading. and probably more correctly designed to disguise the true description of the event.
<br>
<br>I've read most of this long range stuff. I've heard well thought out points from both sides. I personally don't have a problem with what they are doing as long as it is done within the confines of the parameters which have been set by the various regulatory agencies. However, from the information these folks have provided themselves, I don't think this acrivity can be called "hunting". I believe the accurate term to describe the activity would be "shooting" or "long range marksmanship".
<br>
<br>The term I would use to describe the death of an elk at over 1000 yards with the equipment I've read about is "assasination".
<br>
<br>You are all now free to rip me a new one!
<br>

pak
<br>Yeah, you pretty much summed up what I think is going on... we need to play smarter.
<br>
<br>rutnut
<br>Ain't never voted for no stinkin' Demoncrat! I really don't care how they shoot their critters, or where they do it from. My beef has nothing to do with LR hunting at all. Liberals would call it assassination at any range, and it would be less offensive.
<br>art

Sitka,
<br>I agree the use of the term "Neutralize" is just stupid.
<br>A dead animal was never in anyway on one side or another,and there is no Neutral in the food chain.
<br>
<br>Is NRA Highpower merely practice for war?
<br>Yes.
<br>Small bore 4 position Gallery leagues,are they practice for war?
<br>Yes.
<br>Firearms skills are Martial skills.
<br>
<br>Is Hunting preperation for war?
<br>It depends.
<br>A farmboy in uniform far from home,stalking the weeds for the enemy,uses the skills he developed chasing Deer and other game back home.He's pretty thankful he didn't spend his free time playing Tennis!
<br>
<br>Need I remind you that hunting is only protected by the Military worth of the firearm used?
<br>
<br>By law,if a firearm has no military application,it is illegal.
<br>Therefore in this country,all legal firearms are WEAPONS!
<br>I wish it weren't so,and sane people made the laws.
<br>
<br>Wouldn't bunny hunting with a 20ga Marbles game getter be a hoot?
<br>Unfortunately it is not legal,as short barreled shotguns have no Military purpose,and are not protected under the second Ammendment.
<br>
<br>Like I said.They all must be "Dual purpose".
<br>Calling a hunting arm a "Hunting rifle,or Bird gun" makes no difference to the grabbers,they,not the rednecks,are the ignorant ones.They want all of them banned,no matter what the things are called.
<br>
<br>I see us disagreeing on two fronts in this one fight, though our goal is the same.
<br>
<br>How bout I conceede that when I am hunting the firearm is a tool for recreation,and any other time it is a "Weapon"?
<br>That would be the truth right?
<br>
<br>Websters:
<br>fire.arm:Weapon (as a rifle) that works by an explosion of gunpowder.
<br>
<br>weap.on:1,something(as a gun) that may be used to fight with.2:Means by which one contends against another.
<br>
<br>Notice that Firearm,weapon,and gun are all interchangeable.
<br>It is because they are.
<br>
<br>Also note that Websters relates Gunpowder to an explosive,and not a propellant.I should expect better from them.
<br>
<br>If you honestly think the liberal elite will get off our backs if we change the name of our favorite toys,Have at it.
<br>I call my AR-15 a "Target rifle",and they call it an "assault weapon" though it has killed nothing but paper and varmints.
<br>
<br>The current craze is "Long range rifles" as we call them.
<br>The liberals get press by calling them "Sniper rifles".
<br>
<br>The name game does not work.They controll the media,and will call anything what they want,to fit their agenda,regardless of what we call it.
<br>The constitution,Federal Law,Websters,and the truth lean towards "Weapon".
<br>
<br>I honor your efforts towards our common goal,but I refuse to conceede the truth.
<br>All Firearms are just that.Dual purpose weapons,no matter what they are called.
<br>
<br>"If you count the tail as a leg,How many legs does a Horse have? It can only have Four.Calling a tail a leg,does not make it so."
<br>Abraham Lincoln.
<br>
<br>No flames man.Just a Philosophical difference,and I hope I didn't insult in any manner.Don't mean to.
<br>Cheers!
<br>E4E
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

E4E
<br>No bent feelers here. But man you are wrong! Did you not see the incredible win from the Supreme Court just last month??? They held that the 2nd covers everyone as an individual right.
<br>
<br>You have fallen into the trap of accepting that the military use of firearms is the only legal use... just ain't so. The preamble to the 2nd is only that. Individuals have an individual right to own any gun. If anyone is covered, we are all (lawabiding citizens that is) protected. How could you have believed otherwise, even before the decision?
<br>
<br>Do I think that liberals, mainly the press, using language against us has worked for them? Absolutely!
<br>Do I think that using language against them will work as well? No way, as you clearly point out the press controls the language. But has a calous remark in a liberal's presence ever caused them to open their wallet against us? You better believe it has, and repeatedly every day.
<br>
<br>In most states, the Lt Governor is in charge of elections, and therefore gets to have a heavy hand in how resolutions are worded, and whether they are yes or no votes to achieve the end desired. Simply turning a proposition around from a yes needed to pass, to a no needed to pass are enough to make or break the average bill.
<br>
<br>Many voters are not aware of what is at stake and vote heavily no, regardless of their personal positions... it is just one of the ways that "ins" stay in. It has happened repeatedly here in AK with the clown we currently have for governor, and his side-kick. Likely it has happened in your town too.
<br>
<br>As you notice, the title of thread is "newspeak" from Orwell. Webster's chooses to cater to Orwell, the OED does not. The OED is the standard by which words are judged and is the final authority in any serious case, because the liberals, the cognitive elite, if you will, have so decided it. As you would have expected a better definition of gunpowder, I would have expected better of the word weapon;-)
<br>
<br>The military is protecting us from outside aggressors, supposedly, but the reality is that the constitution is the teeth behind the right. Lose it, (the RTKABA) as many a free state has found, and you will see the military controling the people. People willing to do that have been found in every situation where opportunity has arisen previously...
<br>
<br>I still own no weapons, man.
<br>No offense intended, nor taken.
<br>art

Sitka,
<br>I noticed our most recent win,and thank God for it.
<br>I also am a complete pessamist when it comes to trusting the doings of ANY government.
<br>
<br>My "leave me alone to punch holes in paper and critters,or I'll consider using it otherwise" is a result of that distrust.
<br>
<br>History supports my distrust.
<br>
<br>I will conceede a more concious use of the term "Firearm" to you in circles of conversation that may be unknown.Just don't expect me to change my intent.
<br>
<br>Fence sitters can figure out the truth,and decide after that.
<br>
<br>Lawyers sway opinions amoung Lawyers that hold Judges seats.
<br>Trusting a Lawyer with freedom is just stupid.
<br>
<br>Everything we enjoy today can be traced back to the use of a weapon,in the hands of a rifleman,not a Lawyer.
<br>
<br>Again no flames.I just choose to wait and see.
<br>Keep safe!
<br>E4E
<br>

Have any of you seen the video "Exploding Varmints"?
<br>
<br>As I watched the video I saw many many prarie dogs litterally EXPLODE. I have killed woodchucks and on rare occasion I have seen them explode. Dave7mm and myself hunt together (as a team) for woodchucks - long range. Most of the time Dave is the spotter since I shake so bad and usually flinch/jump when he fires his rifle that I make a poor spotter. I will say, it IS more fun to WATCH then it is to SHOOT.
<br>
<br>I watched Dave hit a woodchuck at no more then 40 yards, which was quite a feat considering he was holding a #15 rifle with a straight 24X scope, offhand. When that 52gr berger bullet hit that woodchuck it literally EXPLODED. All we found was a peice of its head and some hide, the rest just vaporized in air. We couldn't even find any blood on the ground. I would say that was a very humane kill.
<br>
<br>Lets add EXPLODE to the list
<br>
<br>For those that don't or can't fathom what a little 52gr bullet will and can do to a 15lb woodchuck at 500 plus yards, it sometimes IS amazing. We have seen hits on woodchucks at 500 yards where the woodchuck simply flipped in the air doing summersaults (SP). It is amazing what that little bullet does with a muzzle velocity of just over 4200 FPS. When kills of less then 500 yards are made the shooter rarely gets the opportunity to SEE the hit because the bullet gets there so fast that the shooter doesn't have enough time to recover and see the hit. We often times argue about who is going to shoot because we both want to see the hit and the end result.
<br>
<br>Have a good one,
<br>
<br>Don

Don that is pretty cool is'nt it????We are starting a groundhog video in a few week's.Long Range.(500 yard's plus)Have you ever seen what a 220gr or 300gr Matchking does to them at that range.Groundhog's are VERY good practice for us for deer season.I will keep you posted on the video.Should be done mid summer.We already have the intro done.It's gonna be a hoot.....

Sounds like an awesome video, I'll be looking for it. We are going to make a longrange chuck bustin video in the near future. I think we will go to the Troy area to do it. A lot of HOGS up that way. Your right when it comes to spotters they have all the fun. Except when you catch it on tape, then the shooters can enjoy the same show!!! If you guys ever need spotters let me know we would love to help you out. We are about 4 hours from Erie. Clinton Co.

PBLR....I beat you to that one.... Count me in too....

Of course ya beat me to it, Ive been on the toilet all day. Man this stuff sucks. THANKS BOYD

Don't worry.It does'nt last that long.I can keep food IN now.......LoL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don...I've been to Erie afew time's.Went to car show's right off of the Kersarge(sp) exit.At a place called PJ's Auto Sound..Do you know where that is??????

Boyd,
<br>
<br>Yes, it IS cool alright
<br>
<br>No, I have not seen what a 220gr or 300gr Matchking does to a woodchuck at 500 plus yards, I can only imagine. Does the word EXPLODING sound appropriate? LOL
<br>
<br>I beleive the "Exploding Varmint" video that I mentioned was advertised in "Varmint Hunter" magazine. Dave bought the video and while watching it,,,,,it was cool, to say the least. They just "turned" those prarie dogs off, lol.
<br>If memory serves me correctly there were 500 actual hits shown on that video.
<br>
<br>Keep me informed on "your" video, I would enjoy seeing the results of your practice and dedication at long range.
<br>
<br>Don
<br>

Damn you guys,,,you are hooking me, line and sinker, lol.
<br>
<br>PBLR,
<br>
<br>I would really enjoy hunting with you guys for woodchucks, or any animal for that matter. I am sure I could learn a lot from all of your experience AND if I managed to hit a few woodchucks along the way, we could all enjoy. Besides, we could all use more people for friends that enjoy a common interest.
<br>
<br>Just one thing though, you can't be laughing at my PURPLE & WHITE marble colored stock I have on my rifle ,,,I am very sensitive guy ya know, lol. Dave still doesn't believe I actually have a McMillan Hunter Class PURPLE & WHITE marble pattern stock, lol. Everytime I get it out of the softcase he DOES sort of look at it strange,
<br>
<br>Troy? (checking the map, hey Dave, where the heck is Troy? They have lots of woodchucks )
<br>I just hate to see a place that has way to many woodchucks, we need to get over there and watch how the "experts" do it and learn how it is done.
<br>
<br>I, for one, would relish the opportunity to have you spot for me. Thanks for the very kind offer.
<br>
<br>Don
<br>
<br>P.S. We will have to get together this summer.

Boyd,
<br>
<br>I have heard of PJ's but not being a stereo nut myself I have never been there or used their services. PJ's is on the East Side of Erie and I am on the west side. I do have a radio, cassette player, CD player in my car but almost never turn it on.
<br>
<br>I would rather kill varmints and watch them explode. Thats music to me ears
<br>
<br>Have a good one,
<br>
<br>Don

Don.. How would your buddy feel about a green a black stock.I have the same stock.Just green and black.I kinda like the look's of the purple and white one's.My wife told me if I wanted her to shoot my big gun in 1000 yard comp's this year.I would have to paint it pink with purple poke-a dot's.What would you buddy say about that one???????LoL!!!!!

DON,
<br>I have a purple / Teal marble stock on my 30Hart . But it doesn't have any trouble at all turning brown to red. lol
<br>We'll have to hook up this summer and go smash a few.
<br>Troy is in Tioga county (I Think) lots of hogs and quite a few farmers willing to let ya dis,dis,dis, bahdeet, bahdeet, bahdeet. ka,ka,kill them. Sorry just got tounge tied thinkin about the right words to use.lol I wonder what the 300 grn sierra would do to a hog? Anyone know? I never tried it. YET!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Boyd,
<br>
<br>I have a Stolle Panda action (223 bolt face) sitting here and a Jewel 1lb trigger. Now all I need is a Hart light Varmint barrel and a McMillan Hunter class stock in the PINK & WHITE marble pattern - for my daughter. I think Dave will smile when he see's your rifle. At 100 and 200 yard bench rest competitions I am sure he has seen all sorts of configurations, colors and patterns. I recall him telling me about one with SMILEY faces all over it.
<br>
<br>I say, when a woodchuck see's PURPLE he dies, lol.
<br>
<br>Have a good one,
<br>
<br>Don

PBLR,
<br>
<br>I fully understand the brown turning to red,
<br>
<br>Sounds like a plan, as said before, I would enjoy hunting with you guys. We will have to work it out some Saturday.
<br>
<br>I just got back from a hog hunt in Texas about 4 weeks ago. I wasn't fortunate enough to have killed a hog but I had a hell of a good time. I can't wait to go back. I was using my 300 win mag - 180gr ballistic tips. I did learn a lot on that first trip. My next trip I will be using my 375 H&H AI and either 270gr X Bullets or GS Custom HV bullets in 265gr. It will depend on which bullet shoots best. My reason on selecting the 375 H&H AI is that at night it is not always easy to tell which way the hog is facing. I figure with one of those 2 bullets it won't really matter.
<br>
<br>I have a Schmidt & Bender 4 to 16 X 50 PM II scope on my 300 win mag. I am checking into 3rd generation night vision scopes that will allow me to hunt even later. If that isn't an option I am also looking at an Illuminated reticle on a Schmidt & Bender scope.
<br>
<br>The ranch foreman swears by his 7 STW and 140gr ballistic tips for hogs. Our guide uses a 220 swift, I don't recal which bullet.
<br>
<br>If you know of a ranch where they have lots of hogs and have been before, if you would be so kind, forward the info. I went once so far and I surely plan on going again.
<br>
<br>Have a good one,
<br>
<br>Don