Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
#5450798 - 07/23/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: LBP]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,984
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle
Mule Deer  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,984
Banana Belt, Montana
After some more experience I decided that one overnight deer was just one of those things.

It only went about 75 yards, but into really thick stuff, and there wasn't any blood trail. I was hunting with an older guy who didn't have much patience with my claim that the crosshairs were in the right place when the rifle went off. We were hunting in his pickup, and after looking for more than an hour he said he had to get home.

I didn't sleep much that night and insisted we go back the next day--and I found the deer within minutes, thanks to a magpie coming out of the thick stuff. Turned out I hit it perfectly, too, right through the top of the heart. The bullet (a 105-grain Speer Hot-Cor) also appeared to work perfectly, since there was about a 1" hole through the heart.

Since then I've seen a lot of rounds sometimes result in more or less the same thing, including a .300 Winchester Magnum loaded with 200-grain Partitions. As a result of those experiences (and others) I don't believe nearly as much in the difference between most cartridges as many people too--or I used to.

My change of attitude about the 6mm's hasn't been so much the new bullets but seeing a lot more game taken, with a lot of different rounds and bullets.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
CMG 300 BP

#5450975 - 07/23/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,139
LBP Offline
Campfire Guide
LBP  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,139
Central, Texas
Makes a lot of sense. I've taken probably 20-25 deer and pronghorns with the 243 and always had excellent results. A few ran a little like you said but most went right down. I've never used anything but Cor-Lokts and Interlocks in the 243 but the critters didn't seem to like them at all...


Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.

Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
#5450980 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,932
nighthawk Online content
Campfire Outfitter
nighthawk  Online Content
Campfire Outfitter

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,932
NE South Dakota
John, see, that's because you didn't use a 6mm Remington, a vastly superior cartridge design. (Guess which variety of pretty much the same thing I use? wink )

Funny you should mention a change in attitude. I must have been 13 when Uncle Jack shot a doe at close range (under a hundred) with his new and much bragged up .243 Winchester. Between ribs in and out with no indication of expansion by the old Silvertip. I put it down with a .30-'06 (Grandpa's sporterized Springfield) using 180 grain factory somethings. Pretty much soured the whole party on the .243, certainly Jack as it looked like he was about to wrap it around a fence post. I don't think Jack's brothers who were part of the expedition would've let him live it down except out of kindness.

Fast forward almost 40 years, I'm back in South Dakota and decide to try the 6mm Rem. on deer, the one I set up for coyotes, just for fun. Darned if it doesn't just plain work and that old .30-'06 is the one that gets pulled out just occasionally for something different. Funny, a cousin's kids who were introduced to deer hunting with a .243 think a .30-'06 is about the minimum. I just smile.

Time and unnecessary recoil and rifle weight do odd things to a guy. Best of all, it's one of those six millimeters and not a damned .243.


"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." -- George Carlin
#5451224 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: nighthawk]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,984
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle
Mule Deer  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,984
Banana Belt, Montana
nighthawk,

Ah, another one of those famous "examples of one"....

An awful lot of hunters decide they know all about killing power after a few dozen animals, because each instance is magnified. But if you see a few hundred (or a few thousand) taken, you become aware that "killing power" (like anything that depends on numerous variables) follows a bell curve.

Anything can happen at the far ends of the curve, whether dropping an elephant with a .22 rimfire to having a whitetail doe run off quite a ways after a heart-lung shot from a perfectly adequate deer rifle.

One of my favorite examples of one was a springbok I shot during a cull hunt in South Africa almost a decade ago. I was testing the then-new (and short-lived) 260-grain .375 Nosler Ballistic Tip. It had worked very well up to that point, dropping various animals up to over 500 pounds quickly, and penetrating deeply.

A pair of springbok came trotting along, a male and female, pushed by drivers on horseback in the valley below. They didn't look all that alarmed, so I tracked them and when they stopped I shot the male (or "ram" as they're called). He dropped right there, as you might expect from an 80-pound animal shot with a .375 H&H.

The ewe ran a little way at the shot, then stopped to look back at where the ram dropped. At the shot she took off running again, going close to 100 yards before slowing and then falling. There was a hole on the other side of the chest you could stick the end of a football in.

From that experience we might extrapolate that the .375 H&H isn't really enough for antelope the size of Labrador retrievers, or that it was a really good thing when Nosler bonded the 260-grain Ballistic Tip less than a year later, because it wasn't tough enough. Instead, all it meant was that sometimes bullet diameter, expansion and velocity don't affect animals the way we theorize they should!


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#5451270 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,524
CrimsonTide Offline
Campfire Kahuna
CrimsonTide  Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,524
Kentucky
Some creatures (and people) don't give up the ghost like others do.


"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

Alpha

#5451287 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: CrimsonTide]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68,581
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle
ingwe  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68,581
Southwestern Montucky
True dat, John, or his lovely bride Eileen will have to tell you the story of her antelope buck in Wyoming sometime....it was apparently beamed down as a cyborg from a spaceship in the future...and mere bullets couldn't kill it! shocked


He spoke in tears of 15 years his dog and him traveled about. The dog up and died. She up and died....After 20 years he still grieves.
#5451296 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: ingwe]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle
Mark R Dobrenski  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Bozeman, Montana
I had a deal like that once as well, we called her the whitetail from hell. Lets just say that the brawl included my 340 and enough 250 Speers to take on a small country. And it was an Igloo deer if you catch my drift.. wink

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
#5451301 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68,581
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle
ingwe  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68,581
Southwestern Montucky
I had one too...a smallish mule deer buck in the Marias river breaks we dubbed " The Terminator"...

Nuff said... eek


He spoke in tears of 15 years his dog and him traveled about. The dog up and died. She up and died....After 20 years he still grieves.
#5451309 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: ingwe]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,984
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle
Mule Deer  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,984
Banana Belt, Montana
That's a good story!

As many people have noticed, an alarmed or rutting animal is often harder to kill.

That particular pronghorn buck was severely "harassing" a doe. Eileen placed the first shot perfectly at about 200 yards, putting a 120-grain Nosler Partition from her .257 Roberts tight behind the buck's shoulder. Blood started pumping from the exit hole in a stream almost an inch in diameter, indicating one of the major blood vessels had been whacked.

After a light reaction to the sound of the shot, the buck started harassing the doe again. Eileen shot him again, pretty much in the same place, whereupon he quit bothering the doe and eventually bedded down, and then lay his head down. When Eileen and our friend Casey Tillard approaching him, though, his head came up and he tried to horn Casey. Eileen shot him again at least twice with the .257 before the buck finally decided to expire. When field-dressed, there wasn't any blood pooled in the chest cavity, because he had finally, totally bled out, over a period of several minutes.

From that we might extrapolate that a .375 H&H might be adequate for pronghorns--if it wasn't for that doe springbok in South Africa.



John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#5451311 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: ingwe]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle
Mark R Dobrenski  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Bozeman, Montana
Yeah the Marias river critters can be tough, that's where I encountered the yote from hell also.

The Terminator bucks and such will test ones hunting/cartidge maturity just a wee bit.

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
Bravo

#5451322 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68,581
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle
ingwe  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68,581
Southwestern Montucky
True dat...Shari got one too...a nicish mule deer buck that finally augered in after 7 shots.....seven nice entrance holes in the chest cavity, seven nice exit holes...the " Swiss" deer... grin


He spoke in tears of 15 years his dog and him traveled about. The dog up and died. She up and died....After 20 years he still grieves.
#5451326 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: ingwe]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle
Mark R Dobrenski  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Bozeman, Montana
Those Swiss are tough bastids...grin

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
#5451484 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,009
Gun_Nerd Offline
Campfire Guide
Gun_Nerd  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,009
Northern Virginia, USA
A friend of a friend in northern Maine shot a big whitetail buck up there several times in the chest before it went down. I don't recall how many times for sure, but it was something like 3-5 shots ... with a muzzleloader.

I don't have the details of shot placement or bullet type, but given the amount of time it had to take to reload, I'm not sure it really matters.

#5451519 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Gun_Nerd]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,524
CrimsonTide Offline
Campfire Kahuna
CrimsonTide  Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,524
Kentucky
WITH A MUZZLELOADER! Now that deer was a Masochist!


"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

#5451614 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,826
Shag Offline
Campfire Tracker
Shag  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,826
Nez Perce County
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
HA!

Actually, I just bought a really nice little Husqvarna .243 from the Campfire. It weighs 7 pounds with scope, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it shoots. (I already know the .243 can kill stuff....)


Now that sounds like a neat rifle!!!


Get Outside...
#5451891 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Shag]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,139
LBP Offline
Campfire Guide
LBP  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,139
Central, Texas
I remember that story of the Cyborg Goat.

I've had one hog that was like that she took several shots from several rifles, ironically the final rifle that finshed the nasty affair was a 243. But I know it was just coincidence as all the rifle were adequate for Miss Piggy...


Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.

Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
#5451973 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218
High_Brass Offline
Campfire Guide
High_Brass  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218
Parkersburg, WV
Got Savage 110 in 243 that I have had for 20 years. It's worn 3-4 scopes, shot 70, 80, 85, and 100gr bullets into very tight groups and has killed several deer. There is bluing wear on the bolt knob, safety, and trigger for good reason. Groups have opened up a bit (still under 1") and I figure it's f due to wear. I have shot the schitt out of it because it's accurate and doesn't kick like European soccer player. Never had to track a deer that I shot with it either. They have either dropped like a rock or I saw 'em fall. All deer were shot with (wait for it) 100gr Remington Core Lokts that were handloaded. One thing I have found with this gun is that you pick a bullet and about any powder and you'll get the thing to shoot like it's paid for it. Heck with 70gr Hornady SPs (which are very short for their weight) and 43gr of Big Game, Dad and I taking turns shooting shot a 7 shot group at 100 yards about 3/4". To me, that was impressive.


Karma and Trouble have busses, and there's always an empty seat.
#5452013 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: High_Brass]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,139
LBP Offline
Campfire Guide
LBP  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,139
Central, Texas
The 100 gr Core-Lokt's are what I have used the most too...


Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.

Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
#5452094 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: LBP]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218
High_Brass Offline
Campfire Guide
High_Brass  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218
Parkersburg, WV
I hear ya LBP. Slap a deer in the important parts and get your knife ready.


Karma and Trouble have busses, and there's always an empty seat.
#5452289 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: LBP]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,348
nifty-two-fifty Online content
Campfire Ranger
nifty-two-fifty  Online Content
Campfire Ranger

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,348
Far Northstate Calif
Ingwe"s Swiss deer reminded me of my first antelope. I was crawling up an easy rise hoping to get a shot down the other side where a small group of antelope were grazing. Unknownst to me they were walking up the other side, almost straight towards me. Well before I reached the top, a nice, younger, but very shootable buck sky-lined himself right in front of me at about 100 yards. He turned almost broadside and stared at me, and posed like a statue. I was quickly in a classic kneeling position to clear the intervening grass and low sage and the first shot went. Not a flinch or the bat of an eyelash of reaction from the buck as the bolt action seemed to operate itself, the cross-hairs settled and the second shot was off.

Again, no reaction whatsoever. My mind reeled as the bolt operated itself again. "I can't believe I am missing." "Is my scope knocked out of wack?" "Am I shooting at a phantom? Did I actually see the buck move before I started shooting?" "Could I be shooting at a decoy?" And then the third shot was on its way.

Again, no reaction. Three shots in about three seconds. "Am I shooting blanks?" "I give up! Lord, what is happening here?" The buck is still staring at me.

As I stand up erect, the buck slowly crumpled straight down in its spot. Very dead.

On the Campfire several folks are fond of saying we never get to shoot 3-shot groups on game. Well, sometimes we do.

Nicely placed on the chest were three 7mm holes in less than two inches. On the offside, three holes only slightly bigger, in less than two inches.

This occured very early in my big-game hunting career. I wasn't familiar with antelope, and I hadn't seen "statue-mode" before. Also, I expected my 7x57 to just "Knock 'em right off their feet like the Hammer of Thor" shooting the high-pressure Norma factory load with their 150 gr semi-pointed "Torpedo" bullet. After all, Mr Bell shot elephants with his 7x57.

That bullet would probably be good on elk. And before someone squawks about a sky-line shot, I was well aware of what was in that direction (wide-open prairie for miles). For you Easterners, if you haven't hunted Wyoming-type terrain it is hard to imagine. Like hunting on the moon, with grass and lots of low thorny stuff. And the only other human (or vehicle) within miles was my hunting partner well to my rear. Had he been up close to me he might have seen the first bullet impacting the hair on the chest in a good spot and been able to tell me to just take a couple of deep breathes and wait for the crumple.

Every hunt gives us another chance to learn something about our bullets and about the animals we hunt, and how they can react many different ways to the shot.


Nifty-250

"If you don't know where you're going, you may wind up somewhere else".
Yogi Berra
#5452410 - 07/24/11 Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: nifty-two-fifty]  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,062
dubePA Offline
Campfire Guide
dubePA  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,062
PA
Read it the other day. Good article, even if'n it was actually a thinly-disguised 250 Savage/257 Bob scribble. ;O)


If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

AIH 160 1
Who's Online Now
144 registered members (2be1, 79S, 805, 2ndwind, 204guy, 257_X_50, 23 invisible), 564 guests, and 590 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod









Copyright © 2000-2018 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.068s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 1.0524 MB (Peak: 1.3613 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-19 07:33:02 UTC