|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
You know of the 4 bore we did on falling block, with its 1 inch bore.Using turned cases and cases made from 20mm brass. Our cases have a rim and straight sides. A smith in the EU made a 1 inch bore gun on a bolt action, using 20mm brass expanded to take 1 inch bullets. His case has a shoulder to head space on. It is called the Inch Gun by some. It is a really nice looking gun, with great craftsmanship.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of the 8ga falling block we are working on, partly done. It is built like the 4bore one in a one piece stock. IT is built .150" narrower than 4bore. We used the heavy 8ga barrel that I first put in the Enfield bolt gun for a 8ga testing. The breech block, linkage, lever, pivot is done, as you can see in picture with lever open and breech down. I have got to chamber, put in firing pin, do hammer and trigger. 8ga gun in 1st picture. Hammer and trigger setup is now mounted and moves on the back of the breech block on an extension. I also made this change first on 4bore, 2nd pic. It uses NEF hammer and spring and Stevens trigger. Breech block set up same as 4bore just narrower. Later hope to do a 2 bore and same setup only breech and action a little wider.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here picture of the 8ga from back. This action will also do 12ga FH, 10ga, 700HE, 600NE,50BMG,etc. The breech block in this and the 4bore are 1 inch thick front to back, with the width different. The bottom of block is same on all and uses same linkage and lever; same hammer and trigger. The 4bore one will do 20mm, as that is what I make the 4bore brass from. When I do 2bore, breech block will use same design, but just be wider on the top of the block. The recoil pads are over 2" thick. I made the stock from a 2.5" thick blank......mostly by hand. This action will hold much more pressure that the heavy built plastic 8ga cases can take , and they are good to over 20,000 psi. Like a 1000gr at 2500.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Guys wanted more particulars of Hubel FB.. Here is picture, empty falling block receiver from the top...2nd a side view of the breech block with back extensions, with hammer and trigger. Hammer has safety cocking notch. The lever, not shown, connects to linkage up inside the two bottom extensions.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766 |
Man those are monsterous guns! I love checking in on this thread from time to time.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
A fellow in Texas picked up a Tula-Toz 4bore pump gun like Big Al has. He is getting some of the 3 inch brass 4ga cases from RMC. RMC still has them if anyone needs them. That gun takes a short 4ga case, either brass or plastic if you can find them.This 4 gauge is a .938 inch bore, smaller than our 1 inch one. Pic is Al's gun.Bolt has 4 locking lugs...ED
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here are pictures of the Falling Block breech block. Front and side rear view....Notice the integral bottom extensions are narrower than the top. These are what the linkage is inside of and when breech is levered down these fit though the slot in the stock. And being narrower the slot isn't too wide so the stock has enough strength. Botton extensions same width for all action sizes.Just top different for the size of action needed for big cartridges. This breech is little rough as it has had a dozen changes to it. But it holds a load in 4 bore of 1500gr over 2600.Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Some more slug ideas--First picture of 10ga 830gr hollow base slug in 8ga wad cup, And 690gr hollowbase 69 caliber Dixie Gunworks slug that I swaged down a little, in a 12ga wad cup. 2nd picture is the a new offering from the EU,a new 300gr US-S slug with locked on base, discarding petals, by European Cartridge. Accurate in smooth bores. In 3" plastic they load to over 2100 with shotgun powders. In a 3.5" plastic and our slower powders I could get over 2800. Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
That US-S pointed slug with discarding petals, and locked on base, shown above is called the Swift 12. And correction on the weight, it is 320 gr. And they plan on testing and maybe supplying 3.5" versions, planning on getting around 2500 fps with shotgun powders. I know in our 3.85" case in the long barrel Savage, I could get over 3000 with big amounts of our slower powders we load with. Bought some tubing caps And here is picture of those copper tubing caps, you can make bullet jackets out of, and fill with lead. In picture you see a rough one I formed with punch, and with a die they be perfectly formed. And with right die they could be formed with round nose with edge step for perfect roll crimping in plastic. And on the right see big caps that would do 4 bore.There are caps between the two sizes that would do 8ga...Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
More 12gs slug/sabot info-- About discarding sabots. Most factories making sabot slugs make them relatively light, 300 to 350 grains, and that is why they are on average more accurate than what guys try to reload with heavier slugs in the sabots. Reason is light slugs don't damage the sabot, while they are trying for high velocity. Example is picture of Hornady SST sabot and it only has a one way plastic seal over powder, and a hard rubber cushion inside the sabot under the 300gr jkt spitzer style slug. Many 12ga hunters say these are the most accurate. Another slug idea is a blunt nose jacketed slug of 675gr I made from one of RG's hollow point jkt slugs. I cut part of jacket off of the front and swaged it over to make blunt nose. These are for the guys trying to make short loaded brass case rounds in 2.5" brass and 2.62" brass to be no more than 2.75" overall to work in certain guns. it is on left, 2nd pic. And gets good velocity with just good BPGS seals under it and slower powder. On right is US-S sabot with discarding petals, locked on base we tried in short brass case, and can't, due to length of sabot get in enough powder to get the higher velocity with heavy 700gr US-S slug, the guys want to get.....ED
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture some folks wanted of our big cases with smaller 30-06 for comparison. In picture, 1st my 2ga, 4ga, 8ga, 10ga, 12ga, my 700HE long case, my 700H 3.25", and 06. 2nd picture is short 2 5/8" brass cases we are checking loads in, to see how much speed can be gotten.You can easily see the length of short full bore lead slug, compared to the saboted ones, allowing more powder in the short slug load for more speed.. Now this doesn't mean saboted are no good, or that I don't like these saboted types. Great for smooth bores, the US-S with locked on base, are the best there is, I think, for big game.Just got to use longer cases. I always felt, that going longer cases is worth the effort where practical ED
Last edited by hubel458; 08/02/11.
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,237
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,237 |
When o When are you going to produce a book?
Ignorance is not confined to uneducated people.
WHO IS JOHN GALT? LIBERTY!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here is picture of my big 585 cases. 30-06 for size comparison. 3rd is 585HE - I have it in bolt, falling block, break, etc, actions. 1st is 585 Hubel Super Magnum - Designed for strong bolt guns. Have in a MRC PH. Can get 20,000 ft lbs. 2nd 585 Rimmed Hubel Magnum and I have it now as a single shot in an 1887 Win. The 87 has a 30" heavy barrel. Case is designed to use in break actions and run about 25,000 psi, but due to the size of the case has enough powder so can get 15,000 ft lbs. It is 4" long, could be called 24ga FH.Ed Got someone...good writer.. maybe to do a book .
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Some 10ga experimenting with slug loads. In NEF with 32" factory, long bull barrel. It is smooth so we use hollowbase slugs Cases FED 3.5" plastic cases, roll crimped. 900gr full bore slugs -180 gr RE17- 1800 plus. Use plastic powder seal and fiber wads. Slug hollowbase and hard cast. 740gr 69cal hollowbase soft lead slug, in VP100 10 ga wadcup. Deep hollowbase slug ..Wadcup has own seal and cushion. 180 gr RE17 -- 2000+ fps. Here are pictures of a couple other different guns in my long 585HE cartridge.. 1st is Olympic Arms BBK bolt gun, in a target style stock with palm swell pistol grip...2nd is the one I made on a CBC single shot by mono-blocking in a heavy 585 cal barrel. Barrels- BBK 1.32" at breech- CBC 1.18" breech 1.070 muzzles.Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 08/21/11.
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Some 28ga FH info and ideas. Brenneke now has 28ga slugs, with good speed, decent smooth bore accuracy. About 260 grain slugs. SAme style as their 12ga ones with locked on base.Work in 28ga NEFs of course and 28ga O/Us.Some real good 28ga O/Us out there. 28ga is a .550 Inch bore.
But now Rossi has out, a revolving 28ga shotgun with about a 19 inch barrel. Should work ok with those slugs. You could also get RMC 28ga brass cases about 2 3/4" long, maybe 3", depending on chamber, a shorter version of our 28GA FH 3.25" case.
Maybe I get one in the future, and put on a longer heavier 585 cal barrel and set it up for my 585 Short HE. Have a switch barrel 28ga/585. Neat gun.Called Circuit Judge....Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 08/26/11.
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
I found a picture of 28ga Rossi Circuit Judge. Barrel is smooth bore , could be little heavier barrel, but it will do ok with the new plastic case Brenneke slugs, 260 gr at 1450 fps..Could do 2000 in a little longer brass case from RMC. 28ga is a 550" bore in a rifled bore. 24ga is about .585 same bore as my 585, and most all 577/585 stuff. The 28ga chamber with minimum work would fire my shorter 585 with a switch barrel 585 bore. And still work with 28ga with 28ga barrel put on. Difference is the case thickness with the 28ga case being nearly the same OD as my 585 drawn, stronger brass cases. The Brenneke slug has along locked on base and seal, connected by long post, that you can see inside the case in picture and pictured on the box Quite a long tail so to speak for good smooth bore work.This is a great step forward for 28ga slugs, as most reloading slug stuff was only 100 grain balls or other super light slug designs...ED
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Some have a need for supply of full bore 12ga hard alloy slugs about 620-650gr. So a couple guys are opening up their Lee Key Slug molds to full bore .729" It will still have the partly hollow base and key. I will do the short brass cases with the first ones I get, to get loads developed. The slugs are about same length as the 730 gr Dixies.They have blunt round nose and can be roll crimped in plastic cases ok. Load of 90gr of IMR4759 in the short brass or 3" plastic cases will get 1800 plus in 24" barrels. I'll Have pictures later to post. Also here is picture of my 585HE in a Khan shotgun action. Operates as a straight bolt, straight pull action for now. Barrel is heavy, 30" long, the butt is weighted. thick pads, it fits nice, looks great. Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
10ga FH ideas..Ok I think the most stylish guns in the world are nicely built over/unders. And there is a heavy duty 10ga over under made by Armi San Marco, imported by Cape Outfitters. That is one brand I've lately seen some sold on GB. Others just as strong are Armsport shown in the picture below, also American Arms, and Richland Arms. And probably a few more. I'll be trying to get one I can afford, I could ream one chamber for 4.05 brass case for slugs, and leave other for 3.5" magnum shot and slug loads in plastic cases. But if we left both 3.5" you'd still have a hairy gun. You can buy 3.5" new plastic cases, with hot Fed 239 primers for 22 cents each. Make a real great combo gun.For slugs with the right weight slugs.Don't go real heavy. For slugs use the hollow base hard cast lead 900gr in brass case, at 1900 fps,that the guy in AZ makes.In plastic about 1750. Those are not a full bore loads,needing real thick barrel, but that heavy O/U has barrels ok for that, keeping pressures at mag shotshell levels.14,000 psi. These modern O/U actions can take pressures like the heavy duty NEF SB2 10-12ga frame, if barrels were thick enough.20,000 in 10ga. IE the actions are real strong. Ruger has made O/U rifles on their O/U frames, and others have made big bore rifles using modern over/unders. I like idea of O/U double ten slug gun knowing the speed we have gotten with our slow powder slug loads....Ed
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Some newer slug ideas coming around. First is Brenneke, a locked on base ounce slug in sabot at factory speed of 16-1700 or so in 3" plastic.Really go in our 3.5" loads. Second is Federal Deep Penetrator, 1 oz, copper plated and a harder lead alloy, than Federals regular slugs. Third is Dupleks, steel slug riding on a plastic band, penetrates very well. About 1 1/8 oz. Seeing the slug base attached deal from Brenneke, in a sabot I figured out the following. The idea is the new BPI blue sabot, being undersize for 12ga, is a perfect fit in a 10ga bpi wadcup, The blue has no cushion on it so it sits in cup ok and a roll crimp works. Just shaved bottom edge corner and fits bottom ok. In 32" heavy barrel NEF 10ga, and 10ga 3.5" plastic case, gets over 2300 at less than mag shotgun pressures with 440gr slug in blue sabot.I plan on in future to make a 10ga with rifled barrel, which these would be best in. If I can find thin wall 10ga wadcup the 12ga bpi AQ slug would work even better, as it is for smooth bores....Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 09/28/11.
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647 |
Here are pictures of the full bore Lee Key Slug I had a guy cast. He took Lee Key mold and machined it out to cast a .729" full bore slug. In picture is a regular soft lead Foster style to compare with. Slugs are hard alloy and can be speeded up ok. In 2nd picture is two MRC 2 5/8" brass cases with slugs in them. These slugs with those brass cases are being tested first in rifled barrels in a guys 1887 WIN. The slugs have real good shoulder to roll crimp against when used in plastic cases. These first ones are 500 gr. We are going to work on another die to get the weight about 600gr, that the brass case guys want to use. Lee molds are not real high price so it isn't a bad deal to get them and change them.Ed.
Ed Hubel
|
|
|
|
575 members (257 roberts, 257Bob, 10gaugemag, 222ND, 160user, 21, 44 invisible),
2,660
guests, and
1,324
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,370
Posts18,527,370
Members74,031
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|