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He wasn't teaching me how to pray. He was teaching them how to pray. With that attitude you might as well close your bible, there's evidently not much that's going to apply to YOU since you weren't there at the time.......
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I truly hate to get in on this, but I get a lot of good from reading others' fields of knowledge, so here goes- there are 3 types of biblical "translation": Formal (attempted word-for-word), Dynamic (attempted thought-for thought), and Paraphrase (what the translator thinks is meant). The most nit-pickin' accurate attempts are Formal; both the others are more subjective. Personally, I use the American Standard version of 1901, for one reason- when I translate directly from the koine greek, after much hassle and labor, what I wrote out is what the ASV already said. NAS or RSV are "updates" of ASV, a bit more modern. More important is vocabulary level- where the NAS was meant for 7th grade level, ASV is ranked at 11th, the most vocab-demanding of english translations. KJV of 1611 is actually easier than ASV, though they're similar. The "best" Bible, though, is: The One you'll READ. Back to my little, dark corner. I sure hope not.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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I couldn't care less about the Lord's prayer. It has no application for a modern Christian.
There you have it. He doesn't care about the way Christ Himself told us to pray. Sounds like "ignore" is in his future. Y'all should do that w/ him & his posts, too. Please do....
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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He wasn't teaching me how to pray. He was teaching them how to pray. With that attitude you might as well close your bible, there's evidently not much that's going to apply to YOU since you weren't there at the time....... It's very clear what applies to modern Christians. I pray to Jesus myself. "And whatever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son." Jesus Christ
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but...Which version of the Bible is the most accurate, i.e., the most in line with what was actually intended to be said.
Ken Howell's post about how the KJV changed "baptism," among other things, got me thinking. King James Version is the one I grew up with, as a Lutheran. If there's a more accurate and correct version, I'd like to get one.
I have heard other people say that there are some problems with the KJV. Of course, the NIV and other versions have their own issues. since the live witnesses have all been dead for two to six thousand years, and almost no original documents survive, I don't know how you'd know what was accurate....in the sense of closest to what really happened and was really said.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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He wasn't teaching me how to pray. He was teaching them how to pray. In a thread about Bible translation, it might be good to translate the above: "I can learn nothing from Jesus about prayer -- neither in the way he led his immediate 12 disciples, nor in what his prayers suggest as a model for all his followers." There you have it. Steve
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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He wasn't teaching me how to pray. He was teaching them how to pray. In a thread about Bible translation, it might be good to translate the above: "I can learn nothing from Jesus about prayer -- neither in the way he led his immediate 12 disciples, nor in what his prayers suggest as a model for all his followers." There you have it. Steve He wasn't teaching us bone head...he told us how to pray, and that was to him and in his name. Read your Bible.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
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Gee, I wonder where the "physical" Bible came from?
Hint:
The Council of Laodicea, in 360, produced a list of books similar to today's Canon. This was one of the Church's earliest official decisions on the Canon, although the "unofficial" list of the generally-accepted Canon had existed for quite some time.
Pope Damasus, 366-384, in his Decree, listed the books of today's canon.
The Council of Rome, 382, was the forum which prompted Pope Damasus' Decree.
Bishop Exuperius of Toulouse wrote to Pope Innocent I in 405 requesting a list of canonical books. Pope Innocent listed the present Canon.
The Council of Hippo, a local north Africa council of bishops created the list of the Old and New Testament books in 393 which is the same as the Roman Catholic list today. Most folks are not aware that Saint Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo was the chairman of this council. Obviously, Hippo was in Algeria, Northern Afrika.
The Council of Carthage, a local North Africa council of bishops created the same list of canonical books in 397. This is the council which many Protestant and Evangelical Christians take as the authority for the New Testament Canon of books. The Old Testament Canon from the same council is identical to Roman Catholic Canon today. Another Council of Carthage in 419 offered the same list of Canonical books.
There was no Canon of Scripture in the early Church; there was no Bible. The Bible is the book of the Church; she is not the Church of the Bible. It was the Church--her leadership, faithful people--guided by the authority of the Spirit of Truth which discovered the books inspired by God in their writing.
The Church did not create the Canon; She discerned the Canon. Fixed Canons of the Old and New Testaments, hence the Bible, were not known much before the end of the 2nd and early 3rd century.
Flameproof Suit On; May God Bless All Of Your,
Steve
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
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To tell the truth I don't feel that I need a Bible. My personal walk is beyond that.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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To tell the truth I don't feel that I need a Bible. My personal walk is beyond that. Truly stunning. When did you reach that pinnacle of character formation and spirituality? Steve And humility. I forgot humility.
Last edited by Everyday Hunter; 09/14/11.
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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The "most accurate" is the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament. If you read Hebrew and Greek, you're set. Having studied the original Greek, I've found the New International Version (NIV) translation is the most accurate to today's modern English.
I love the beauty of reading the King James authorized version. But words like "Easter" were deliberately substituted for "Passover". We are talking accuracy, right?
Other than translations, there are "interpretations". The Message Bible, The Living Bible and the New World Translation fall into the latter category.
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To tell the truth I don't feel that I need a Bible. My personal walk is beyond that. Clearly......
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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It has nothing to do with me. He chose me......I hope he'll show you what I've seen.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Doubtful you have seen anything other than the inside of your lower bowel for a long time.I can do without that view.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Don't be a hater. Maybe you're elect too.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire Ranger
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Hate is reserved for worthy objects."Disgust" is more appropriate for your posts.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Ranger
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I truly hate to get in on this, but I get a lot of good from reading others' fields of knowledge, so here goes- there are 3 types of biblical "translation": Formal (attempted word-for-word), Dynamic (attempted thought-for thought), and Paraphrase (what the translator thinks is meant). The most nit-pickin' accurate attempts are Formal; both the others are more subjective. Personally, I use the American Standard version of 1901, for one reason- when I translate directly from the koine greek, after much hassle and labor, what I wrote out is what the ASV already said. NAS or RSV are "updates" of ASV, a bit more modern. More important is vocabulary level- where the NAS was meant for 7th grade level, ASV is ranked at 11th, the most vocab-demanding of english translations. KJV of 1611 is actually easier than ASV, though they're similar. The "best" Bible, though, is: The One you'll READ. Back to my little, dark corner. I also hope you'll chime in more! Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Perhaps "Christianity" would have more of an impact on our broken world if people LIVED the Bible rather than just reading and studying it. I'm not downplaying reading of Scripture but even Jesus laid it down pretty simple with the Shema. Besides, it is only a very recent occurence that we in the 'first' world have so much choice we can actually even debate this point.
One more reason I can't find a 'good' church--people argue and debate over this crap instead of living the Kingdom life. I have been around many 'christians' who could carry on cogent and lengthy conversations about Bible translations, theology, etc and then in another conversation state how we should 'glass' the Middle east (or whoever the current enemy is defined to be).
"Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind and your neighbor as yourself"; the rest is just commentary.
Oh yeah, I still think Derby Dude gave the most 'accurate' answer, even if it was TIC.
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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