Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Hodgdon's new CFE 223 powder

Just got an email from Hodgdon about a new spherical powder called CFE�223. The letters stand for "Copper Fouling Eraser." It supposedly contains a proprietary de-coppering agent that prevents and actually removes copper fouling from bores. Load data for a wide variety of cartridges is available, but the intended use is clearly for the 5.56/.223 round.

Just looking at the data, the powder seems to have a burn rate a tad slower than W748 or H335, but that's only my first wild guesstimate. See the tested data for specific guidance but it would seem to have fairly broad use as a medium-fast burning spherical.

Western (Ramshot) has incorporated a de-coppering agent in their TAC powder for some time, without much fanfare. But it does seem to work.

I have just the 223 for that one.

Interesting; thanks, Rocky. I was thinking as I was reading your post: Is Hodgy buying Thales' Belgian powders now (same source as Western's Ramshot rifle powders), or have they got General Dynamics to add the same ingredient to their American-made sphericals?

Any thoughts or info re: who the supplier is?

Not a clue. But since the release describes the additive as "proprietary" it would incline me to believe it's not just TAC in another jug.

if you look at data it looks like it's damn near Varget with some additives lol

But it's also spherical, not extruded.

Maybe it has JB bore compound added?

Doesn't RL 15 also have a de-coppering agent?

Ernie

the .204 was said to have de-coppering agent in the factory loads' powder when it came out

Okay, went back and reviewed some older info:

The Winchester Ball Powders have had de-coppering agent(s) listed on their MSDS sheets since at least 1997. Hodgy is listing CFE 223 on their September 2011 spherical powder MSDS, which is simply General Dynamics' July 2011 MSDS with a Hodgy cover sheet. That MSDS still has the same de-coppering agent(s) listed now as it did 15 years ago, so this 'new' powder is clearly a General Dynamics product with the time-tested de-coppering agent(s).

Interestingly, I do not see any de-coppering agents listed in Ramshot Powders' MSDS. I thought I recalled reading about them adding that recently, but apparently either I was mistaken or the item I read was.

JB has written here that TAC has a de-coppering agent, and I trust his knowledge.

I merely observe that the assertion does not appear to be supported by the product's MSDS. That could be due to an MSDS failure, or any number of things. The MSDS I have (from Ramshot's website, today) is dated 2007. Perhaps Thales has begun adding de-coppering agent(s) very recently(?). Or, perhaps they're claiming de-coppering capability from a slightly non-'traditional' de-coppering ingredient(?).

I don't know why Ramshot hasn't mentioned the de-coppering agent in TAC, as it's been there since they started importing the powder. It was originally designed as a powder for automatic military rifles, which is why it's burn rate works so well in the .223 and .308. The de-coppering agent and clean burning came about as part of that research.

Thank you for joining the thread, Mule Deer. Perhaps Ramshot can be influenced to update their literature, or influenced to influence Thales to update the sheet they supply them with, as the case may be.

I'd like to know what the mechanism is behind the de-coppering.

Even without the de-coppering it looks like a worthy new product.

Chemical mechanism. A chemical in the powder that either withstands combustion or forms through combustion then bonds with copper in the bore to form a copper salt. That salt can then be blown out with the next shot. Ideally, of course, it would also be a non-hygroscopic salt.

BarryC, you might find wikipedia's entry for 'smokeless powder' to be an interesting read, if basic.

Should also add, to be certain no one missed it:

"De-coppering agents" aren't novel in any way. The Winchester powders have been using them for a bare minimum of 15 years, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been twice that long or longer. This suggests that the Hodgy-branded powders made by Winchester (formerly Olin, then Primex, now General Dynamics) have had this property for a similarly long time, unless Hodgy didn't want it.

Thales is using de-coppering agents in their spherical powders (made in Belgium by their PB Clermont business unit, suppliers of at least some Ramshot powders), and they are likely using bismuth rather than tin, but the idea's not at all new. The marketing does seem to be novel, though.

Loads and speeds on Hodgdon's data page look pretty darn close to TAC.. Might have to give it a try this winter.

another "Me Too" product.. guess TAC is selling too well, and so Hodgdon thinks it was missing some market share...

I'll stick with TAC...