Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada New Ranger Rifle

According to Defence Watch - a reliable Ottawa source for this sort of information - the govt intends to buy 10,200 new rifles that can chamber 7.62x51mm or 308 Winchester. (All that means is that they are chambered in 308 Win.)

Steve
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New Canadian Ranger Rifle Could Be Produced in a Distinct Colour With Emblem

By David Pugliese

As you know, the Canadian Forces are looking to replace the current Canadian Ranger Rifle (CCR) with a newer weapon. I�ve written about this in the Citizen. The Canadian Forces has now gone to industry (via PWGSC) to gather information on the price and availability of weapons.

The current Canadian Ranger Rifle is a .303 calibre, No 4, Lee Enfield.

These weapons were manufactured decades ago and are becoming increasingly difficult to support, the CF has pointed out.

The new Canadian Ranger Rifle will be a robust bolt action hunting rifle with minor customization that can fire both commercial .308 Winchester and 7.62 x 51mm NATO ammunition, according to the CF.

Here are the timelines of the procurement:

Pricing and information received from industry: 14 October 2011
Options Analysed and Requirements refined: Fall 2011
RFP issued more than likely preceded by a SOIQ: Summer 2012
Weapon Selected and Contracted awarded: Winter/Spring 2013
Start of delivery of new CRR: Fall 2013/Winter 14

For planning and cost estimate purposes approximately 10,200 rifles are required, PWGSC has told industry.

The CF is considering having the new rifle produced in a distinct colour with a Ranger emblem engraved into the rifle stock, says the department.

The colour has not been determined but will be a single colour for the weapon stock only. Some degree of weapons support shall be conducted by Canada�s Small Arms Strategic Source and Centre of Excellence under the Munitions Supply Program, currently Colt Canada.
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http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2011...oduced-in-a-distinct-colour-with-emblem/

Steve;
Thanks for the update on the arms for the Rangers. It will be interesting to see which way they go in this particular procurement.

One wonders if something as simple as the cussed and discussed Ruger Scout would suffice for their needs? I wonder if they go bang at -55�C?

Whichever way they proceed, I'd expect them to have an interesting testing regimen set out for the candidate rifles and I for one would love to read the reports from the resulting tests.

All the best to you and yours Steve and good luck on your upcoming hunts.

Regards,
Dwayne

Thanks Dwayne.

They always send guys to look long and hard at Remingtons. Some version of the 700. For what the Rangers need, Remington probably has what they require in stock right now. That, and the fact the CDN govt has done a lot of buisness with them in the past.

The SAR techs use a Ruger M77 in 30-06 with a folding stock.

Of course, tenders will be out for all companies.

I don't know this to be true, but if they are looking for a distinctive coloured stock, they will be looking at a polymer type. That could mean testing in cold conditions, if it hasn't already been done.

By the looks of the procurement schedule, we won't know for sure until 2013.

Edited to add: Whatever company gets the contract could make money marketing a civilian version of the CRR in Canada.

Good morning guys,
I thought the very same thing as I read Steve's post, "Would the Ruger Scout work for the Rangers?" I would hope it is given consideration. My primary hunting rifle is the original Ruger 77 chambered in 35 Whelen. I have never had a function issue with it due to cold temps or being dirty.
From what I have read of the new Scout Rifle, it would appear to fit the bill, likely with a few minor mods to meet CF mil specs, which is a normal part of the process I believe.
I hope it gets a look as Ruger makes a fine product. Of course a Canadian made rifle would be ideal but......
Jeff

I don't want to sound harsh, but I would puke my guts out if the Ruger rifle won this contract. I see no practical use for the entire "scout" platform, and it does not offer any crossover to the currently fielded rifle. A made in Canada solution, should be the only option, given the US attitude towards imports of late. Give these fellas the rifle they deserve, without any fancy concept, and they will all continue to make us proud.

R.

I don't think that the govt is specifically looking for a scout rifle. I don't have a copy of the document handy, but all bids will be submitted based on whatever the military requirements are.

In a nutshell, they want a bolt action rifle - 308/7.62NATO - that can take a lot of abuse. It will be dragged through snow, ice, mud, etc. and needs minimal maintenance. The winner will have a proven track record and spare parts must be available.

Out of curiosity, what would a "made in Canada" alternative be? A Savage .22 rimfire made in Lakefield?

No sarcasm here, I just don't know of any centrefire rifles manufactured here.

Jim

We really don't have a made in Canada option unless Colt Canada bids. An autoloader isn't what they want though.

Barring the winnder bidder agreeing to manufacture them in Canada, the winner will be from the US. It really doesn't matter. Both Colt Canada and IVI ammunition are American owned.

Colt Canada, PGW in Winnipeg, who made the CF a fine rifle.

R.

Neither Colt Canada nor PGW has the facilities to provide over 10,000 rifles. A new facility would need to be built, or a smaller one expanded.

UPDATE:

This will delay replacement for a little while, but due to the need, the details will work themselves out. I smell money for a new facility or possibly expansion of an existing one.

It will be interesting to see how much change there will be to manufacturing rules. Could a foreign bidder win and be allowed to build the rifles and handguns here? Under the govt's watchful eye o'course!
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Military draws blanks in bids for rifles
Firms don�t want to give up secrets

By David Pugliese, The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/5559408.bin

The Canadian Rangers have been using the Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifle for more than 60 years. Click for pic!
Photograph by: ANDY CLARK, REUTERS
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The Canadian military�s plan to buy new pistols for its troops and rifles for the Canadian Rangers in the Arctic has suffered a major setback after international firearms companies balked at turning over their confidential technical data to one of their competitors so the guns could be manufactured in Canada.

Just a few weeks ago, the Defence Department and Public Works issued a notice to companies that it would be buying 10,000 new rifles and 10,000 pistols.

But DND also stipulated that any firms wanting to bid on the two contracts would have to turn over their technical data and proprietary information to the government, which in turn would pass it on to Colt Canada. Colt would then manufacture the weapons at its plant in Kitchener, Ont.

But defence sources say companies told the government they had no intention of turning over the details of their firearms designs to a subsidiary of the U.S. small arms giant Colt, a key competitor for many of the firms on the international market.

The government then hastily retreated, cancelling its request to the companies for information about prices and availability.

In an email, the Defence Department confirmed that it asked Public Works to cancel the request �as a result of questions, and requests for clarification, from industry.�

The department is now re-evaluating its procurement strategy.

According to the DND email, its small arms project office is now �focusing efforts on clarifying the procurement strategy with the intent to facilitate future communication with industry.�

Comments from industry will be considered when the final requirements for the purchase are written, added the department email added.

But industry sources say Canada�s purchase of the rifles and pistols is considered small so the government will have little leverage demanding that international firearms companies turn over their technical data to a competitor. They suggest the entire procurement strategy will have to be overhauled.

DND has also tried to prevent firms from talking about the proposed pistol purchase. In its notice sent to arms companies for the upcoming procurement, it stipulated that, �No information or statements pertaining to this project shall be released to the media without written permission from the Department of National Defence.�

Such a stipulation is unusual, say industry officials. But there have been growing concerns about the lack of accountability and secrecy that surrounds DND�s procurement organization.

Earlier this year the Citizen obtained a DND report which concluded military procurement was secretive and that the government did not communicate with the public or industry on such matters. �Defence procurement and defence trade are neither free, open, nor transparent,� the study by an outside review team noted.

Jeff MacLeod, general manager of Colt Canada, said he isn�t sure why the government�s request for information from the small arms firms for the pistols and rifles was cancelled, But MacLeod said he expects to find out more information in the coming days.

The new rifles were to replace the Lee Enfield guns that the Canadian Rangers have been using for more than 60 years. The original purchase plan would have seen the Rangers receiving their new rifles at the end of 2014.

The Rangers, a sub-component of the Canadian Forces Reserve, patrol remote parts of the country�s North and other isolated areas of Canada.

For the last two decades the military has been maintaining the rifles from spare parts taken from other Lee Enfields. Although, the Canadian Forces are several years away from a shortage of parts, the number of spare components is becoming limited, according to army officers.

The new pistol would replace two types of handguns currently used in the Canadian Forces. One of those, the Browning Hi-Power, has been in use for decades.

The procurement plan for the new pistol called for a contract in place and deliveries of the new weapons by 2015. It is not clear now when the new rifles or pistols will be delivered.

Canadian Forces C7 rifles and other weapons were produced by Diemaco, a Canadian company in Kitchener, but in 2005 that firm was purchased by the U.S. arms giant Colt. It is now known as Colt Canada and is the federal government�s Small Arms Centre of Excellence.

The company has also supplied militaries in the Netherlands, Denmark and other nations with rifles. It employs around 100 staff at its facility in Kitchener.

Steve,

This is the first time I have heard about this company in Kitchener. Do they only manufacture military arms?

Someone in the government must be out of their minds to think a major manufacturer would turn over proprietary information to another company, particularly a major firm like Colt. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

Jim

The name of the Company was Diemaco, but is now Colt Canada. They are a military contractor that manufactures military arms for Canada and any other country that ponys up the cash.

http://coltcanada.com

You can read more about them here.

They need to replace the Ranger's rifles, so there will be some changes forthcoming so that they can do this.

Steve,

What or who are the Canadian Rangers and why are they retaining a bolt action weapon?

Regards,

Peter

Here's brief overview of what the Rangers are and what they do, Pete. They are undervalued by most of the public, but are great to talk to and spend some time with, if you can.



http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/cr-rc/index-eng.asp

Thanks Gents..

Not heard of that particular unit before..

Regards,

Peter

based on their task, and duties, I don't see why they are looking for a bolt action rifle at all.

That's a description of their duties. The equipment tender put out by the government has a complete list of requirements and specifications.

Mannlicher, where some of these Rangers carry out their duties they have to camp out. Where they camp out there be Polar Bears. Largest carnivore in N.A., haven't found a tent zipper strong enough to keep them out yet.