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Guys please don't consider my question derogatory in any way. I'm not putting down the 303. If any of you guys like and use it yourselves, I'm perfectly fine with it.
I was just curious as to why the 303 British is so popular.
One thing I fully recognize it the 303's ability to take deer at the modest range they are typically found in the eastern part of Canada's woods. The 303 has plenty of power for deer.
I assumed some of the more popular American cartridges, like the 30-06, 270 Winchester or 308 Winchester, would be the cartridge of choice for most hunters.
Last edited by Dixie_Rebel; 10/14/11.
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The .303 British was the service rifle for the Canadian Army in both WWI and WWII.After the war there were barrells of them sitting around that could be purchased dirt cheap.A whole generation of hunters started off with the .303.There aren't that many around anymore.The US Army's service rifle in WWI(and at the start of WWII) was the .30-06 Springfield.Lot's of guys used them for starter hunting rifles as well(The Garand just wasn't suitable! ) Monashee
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Years ago I attended a family reunion near Bancroft (Canada) and while there talk turned to hunting.
Born & raised in Bancroft. Still live only 40 min away. PM your family name, I probably know them. Took my 1st & biggest moose with a 303B.
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I would have to say, that most houses in Canada that have firearms in them, most likely have, or have had a .303 in them. I'm pretty sure there is a law about it somewhere....
R.
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US cartridges weren't as popular in Canada because we simply did not have them up here in as great a number as the 303.
The 303 was in service from before WWI until the 1950s as our primary military cartridge. Surplus and commercial 1895 levers, Rosses, Lee Enfield No 1s and No 4s were everywhere. The cartridge killed every critter roaming our part of the continent. Then there was a disturbance in the Force. Sometime in the 1960s, US ad men noticed that there were 20 million potential buyers living north of the border.
We started seeing more ads telling us that 30-30s and 303s weren't powerful enough for bear, moose and deer. The generation born in Canada in the 1960s was programmed by the boob tube to reject these lesser cartridges in favour of better cartridges like Lazzeronis, Weatherbys, and magnums of any type.
Canada started using a lot more US designed cartridges in the late 60s/early 70s. With the advent of cable television, satellite technology, etc, we got more of your programming. As a result, the US had more of an influence on what happened up here.
It's hard for most Canadians under 40 to understand, but the US had less impact on our lives before then. It's not that 308s or 270s weren't good cartridges, it's just that we didn't need them.
Put another way, how many Chevy's do you need in your driveway? The 308 for example, is just an updated rimless version of the 303. It manages about 200 fps more MV than a std 303 load. Handloads fired from a Ross or P14, match the 308 foot pound for foot pound.
When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed for good here.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Steve you are right. I saw this in Wisconsin for 20 years. It was 30-30, 300 sav. 32 Specials, 30-06. Then the big magazines came out. If it wasn't a magnum you were lucky the animal fell down at all. It calmed down about 8 yrs ago when I started seeing every other used rifle on the shelf was a mag. Seems at least down here on state side it's swinging totally the other way now. The 30-06 is way to big, " meat damage" is the buzz word. Now .243 win. are all over, and .223 rem., 22-250 rem. are being used with great results. I've seen pics of the damage with .22 calibers and got to say it makes mince meat of 300 lb hogs and white tails. Go figure. Cost of reloading supplies and recoil seems the reason.
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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"When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed for good here." I assume by saying "changed for good here" you mean changed permanently. It sure can not be described as a change for the positive. I know your affection for the old workhorse, this is just to clarrify for those under 40 who did not have the benefit of living pre USA influence. Randy a lover of rifles .312
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I have a hankering to buy a .270.
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Yes, so I'll state it this way. When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed permanently here.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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As a kid(I'm old enough to rember the first TVs,US channels only) I got a CIL catalogue,the 303 loading weren't that much off the 308 or 30-06.But,it is amusing the beliefs. In the elk camp next to me in the campground ,one of the hunters was hunting with loaned 30-06 pump instead of" wimpy 303". My answer was 30 caliber is a 30 caliber. I've clocked Winchester 180 at 2200+ in 303 and 2500+ in 30-06 carbine,for 100yard shot ,not much difference.I hunted with either a 338-06 or 338WM,which I said were the same.
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I just smile when I hear about that wimpy, underpowered 303. The person waxing eloquent is unaware of their ignorance. It is not a 300 mag, and that is just fine witth me.
Praise the Lord for full Salvation Christ Still lives upon the throne And I know the blood still cleansess Deeper than the sin has gone Lester Roloff
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When the ad boys started their magnum campaign, the "Use enough gun!" mantra was pushed far beyond sensibility and rational expectations. They did a "bang up job", to be sure.
Magnums have a place when hunting longer ranges or against dangerous game. In Wisconsin, Ontario or New Brunswick, you rarely need something that powerful though. They recoil too much and are more expensive to feed.
Magnums mean more powder, different, more costly bullets and cases. It's harder to introduce new hunters to the sport when their shoulder may end up in the next county. Even loaded down, magnums still use expensive cases and more powder.
I suspect that's the reason why magnums are more frequently seen on the used rack. Once the shine has worn off, hunters realize that they made a mistake buying it and flog the thing for something else. The only winner is the gun shop.
I think that the majority of serious hunters use enough gun for the area where they live and the game. There's no reason for them to discuss the latest cartridge: they don't need it.
They don't need to discuss sectional density, bore diameter or energy transfer. Most are too busy taking game with old or anemic cartridges to bother with Internets debate or ad hype. Good for them.
Don't get me wrong; I think magnums have a place, but more magazine space should be used to educate hunters on what to buy. Hunters too, have a responsibility to learn what they need versus the latest craze.
This last statement usually falls on deaf ears. Chasing shiny things seems to be de rigueur these daze.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Yep, my favourite 30 caliber magnum is the 30-06. PLENTY for everything I shoot. If I was "stuck" with a three aught three I'd survive, but there are a few more bullets to choose from in .308 over .312.
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23) Brother Keith
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Definitely. If this was 30 years ago, we'd have 150s, 174s, 180s, 200s and 215s for the 303 British. No more. I usually take a 30-06 to camp and carry a 303 or 308 as a backup rifle.
.308 bullets are a more sensible choice nowadays. For deer, depending on the WMU, I carry a 44 Mag or a 308 bolt. The 308 is going away however, in favour of another lever.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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The impression I get is that the most popular deer cartridges in the east Kootenays, are: 1. The 270 2. 30/06 3. 308 4. 243 5. everything else. 50 years ago, the 303 would have been at the top of the list. I have killed more deer with my no.4 MK1 than with evry other rifle I've owned, combined. These deer were taken with the 303 or, in the last 20 years, with the 30/40 Krag (I re-barreled it). By the way,it has also shown itself effective on elk, moose and black bears. When I was 14 years old, my dad bought this rifle for me. I kind of wanted a 94 Winchester but he felt the added power of the 303 would make it more suitable. I'm glad he did. GD
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Steve,
Non-magnums may be fine for deer hunting but for moose they are not necessarily the best choice for a seasoned shooter. Almost everyone of my acquaintances who hunt the big lake country of north-western Ontario now use magnums and few of us are youngsters.
Don't know why but at one time it seemed to be common for moose not to show themeselves until they were within 50 or 60 yards. Now they are frequently seen at much longer distances. I don't think my calling has deteriorated so it must be something to do with the fact the lakes we hunt now are much bigger that where we hunted years ago.
When I hunt deer a shotgun is often used (because of regulations, not choice) or a relatively small caliber rifle.
Jim
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If you're taking longer shots, then this is one of those times where magnums make sense. I don't know anyone in your hunting party, but I assume that they can comfortably take a shot at an extended range.
When we go moose hunting, we seem to hunt more clearcuts than years ago, but for those instances I stick with my 30-06. It's one of the reasons I take two rifles. The other is in case one becomes unusable.
This year, I took the 45-70. My longest shot in two of the spots we had scouted would have been 48 yd., according to my rangefinder. The longest shot in one other was 130 yd, across a clearcut. I could have used the 45-70, but took the 30-06. That didn't take moving around into consideration.
This goes back to what I said about hunters knowing where they'll be hunting. You know what rifle will do the job and choose accordingly.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Steve,
Got a kick out of your extended ranges and using the 30-06. I had changed from a 30-06 to a 300 Magnum about 10-12 years ago, and it certainly was effective. I have since graduated back to the 30-06, and with the use of Barnes TSX, dropping a bullet weight and some of he new to me powders, I find the 30-06 only loses about 30 yards or so to the magnum. I have killed more game with a 30-06 and a 22LR than I have with any other, but I've carried one more too.
For me, and for moose or deer, the 168 TSX at 2900 has become my one bullet does everything load. I also have started with the 45-70, and also a 405 Winchester for shots under 200 yards.
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23) Brother Keith
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For what we hunt, a 30-06 is all a fellow needs. That's not what companies that sell new stuff want to hear though. Modern bullets and powders have breathed new life into older cartridges like the 30-06 and that is a thumbs up to modern technology.
That said, new magnum rifle sales will continue. A year or two later, they will be back in the same store on the used rack. Hopefully, they will be traded for a rifle that is matched to what most people are hunting.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Hey my Grandfather started me out hunting with 303 and it does kill now my son got it and his son will be next . Its been pass down 5 times now grandson will be 6 times great gun. Just like the rest .I would go with 300 savage 250 savage also seem a bunch when I was in camps tn Quebec
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