Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 410 or 28 gauge

Hopefully this thread doesn't go off track too quickly. For hunting grouse would a 28 gauge be much better than a 410? Right now I have single shot guns in 12 gauge and a 410 I usually use the 12 with and improved cylinder choke and am very happy with it. The reason for the 28 gauge is I'm newly married and my wife would like to take her hunter training and try hunting. If a 28 gauge is noticeably better than the 410 but also still doesn't kick too bad I would like to get one, besides I think they are cool. We recently went grouse hunting together and she did fine with the whole thing, she thinks that she could do it after watching me shoot some. I suppose a 20 gauge would be good too but they don't seem to kick much different than the standard 12 gauge 1 1/8 oz loads. Any thoughts on the matter

if you reload 28ga rocks. if you dont reload then I would go for a 20ga. I average between 5-8boxes of shells each weekend And much prefer the 20ga over the 12. not only in recoil but also the 20ga frame is just so much nicer handling than a 12ga.

Getting somebody started hunting grouse with a .410. Thats just a bunch of things working against you there.

To answer you question here is a bit of perceptive ..

The .410 if, it it were numbered as a gauge would be a 67 Gauge Shotgun!

Now think about that.

What is closer to the performance of a 12 gauge- a 28 or 67????

Shooting flushing wild grouse with a .410 is akin to going Elk hunting with a .22 Hornet.


Go with a well loaded 28.

Leave the .410 for sitting Cottontails at 20 yards.

The .410 is an experts gun IMO

The .28 kills grouse superbly IME

Between the 410 and the 28, it would be more of a difference in guns than in ballistics.
Long ago, with the old, inefficent paper shells, I used to hunt quail, rabbits, squirrels, dove and even collected a Bandtail Pigeon once with a 410. Back then, the patterns would fall apart beyond 30 yds. so, for short ranges, it worked.
With the modern ammo, I watched my brother, who hadn't shot 16 yd. trap in 30 yrs., break 17 out of 25 with the same gun, an old Winchester 42 pump with a fixed modified choke. So, they have improved a good bit since my days with the 410.
I have used a 28 ga Remington 870 pump for three seasons now on Blue Grouse. I do better with it than I do with my 12 ga. guns. Again, it's the gun not the gauge. I use IC choke for grouse and either 7 1/2's or 6's. E

I've owned and shot them all. The 410 and 28 make great skeet guns as long as you reload. The factory ammo is very good but EXPENSIVE. The 28 can be used in the field effectively.The bottom line in my book is that it won't do anything better than a 20 can and there is a whole lot more variety of loads for the 20 than the 28 at a lot less$ per box ( demand for 20's is greater therefore they are cheaper). There are many guns availible in the 20 not so many choices in the 28 at a reasonable cost.You can buy light field loads for a 20 that will do anything a 28 can do at 1/2 the cost. Still if you find a 28 you gotta have, buy it lifes to short to spend any time wondering about what if's.Personally if a guy buys a 28 the next purchase needs to be a Mec 600 Jr so he can load his own.Yes, it even costs more to load a 28 than a 20 because of the more expensive hulls and wads. I don't have a 28 anymore because I came to the conclusion that it did nothing better than a 20 and was redundant for ME. I think you need to try both and form some of your own opinions about your own needs, just like Eremicus in the above post has. Magnum Man

The 28 is why God gave us MEC. Given the choice I too would opt for the 28. I wouldn't be without mine.

Re: the 12 gauge. I switched to 7/8 ounce loads for 90% of my 12 gauge shooting. Turns it into a pussycat recoil-wise and still kills efficiently. Heck, I only use 1 1/8 ounce loads for waterfowling anymore.

I agree will all here, I am, I concider a great wing shot, I use a 410 Rem 1100 for rabits over my beagles, a 20ga for grouse, I load my own 20ga and I use 7/8oz in my first shot barrel 7 1/2 and for the 2nd shot barrel is 1oz of 6's, in a 6lb Citori, not much recoil, remember, when hunting and excited at the flush of birds recoil is not as percieved as just shooting the gun would be.
My .02cents,
bob

If you are thinking about the shotgun for your wife, then by all means, get the 28 ga.

Many folks make the mistake of arming their children or wives with the .410, due to recoil or whatever. Fact is, the .410 is an expert's firearm for wingshooting.

I've seen young folks get so frustrated with not being able to hit anything with their .410's, usually at doves, that they give up the sport.

IMO This....covers it all. Next Q...grin

Dober

My only contribution to the conversation is that I've done some load development work where I tested the patterning carefully.

There is good reason that people like the 28 gauge. At a recent range day, my grandson was having a ball with one. He thought it was quite a fine machine. I would guess so, since he was shooting the $1800 Benelli.

However, as the bore gets smaller so also does the size of shot that will pattern well. After some frustrating experiments, older, wiser heads advised me that #5 is about the largest shot that will pattern well in a 20 gauge. And that turned out to be about right for me.

You'll have more versatility with managed recoil loads in a 20 than with standard loads in a 28. And yes, to get optimum performance, you will have to reload in either case.

I don't get this, the 28 is widely available, even Wally World carries them.

I love our 28's and have sold off all the 410's. To us the 410 is just ornamental, while the 28 has displaced our 20's because the guns are so trim and the kids shoot them well too.

The 28 is thinking shotgunners choice.

I started both of my daughters years ago with the 28 ga. They loved it and did well with it. Our Rem 870 in 28 ga is the most popular shotgun we have with the whole family.

Between the two choices the 28 wins by a wide margin. .410s are not for beginners and in reality not for all that many who have been around awhile.

You didn't mention which Grouse, but if it is the Ruffed species, they usually don't take a lot of killing with a solid hit and the 28 will give her improved odds to do so.

A light 20 with 7/8oz light loads would be an additional option.

Great analogies! Want to fail or blow your first-best-chance with a wpussie .410? Insist on letting your lady shoot that 67 gauge!

My very first shotgun was a .410 M370 Winchester singleshot.

Best choice would have been a 20 gauge! When I was 10y.o., not the .410.

The 28 ga with 3/4oz of 7 1/2's or 6's "is a killing machine" the game warden on the shores of the Great Salt Lake once told me, my first exposure to the 28 gauge. (after checking my license, he broke out his Browning Citori to shoot a few sparrows, B.S.ing with me almost an hour, true story!)

But a 7/8oz or 1-ounce 20ga loads is a GREAT COMBINATION too!! And much more VERSATILE than a .410 or 28ga.

The twenty-gagger is easier and CHEAPER to find and BUY than the 28ga and .410, too.

If your lady can't handle the recoil of "standard" 20 gauge loads, is it because she's too delicate? Hunting isn't for hurting oneself or making a usually-pleasant experience "hard and painful," but handling "recoil" is part of shooting ANY firearm, even a rimfire .22! Next time you shoot even the mildest .22LR rifle, watch to see the recoil it has! Almost un-noticeable, but its there.

"Square" birdshot packages, i.e., about as long as they are in diameter, tend to pattern better than long skinny birdshot packages. All else equal, 7/8 oz in a 20 gauge will tend to pattern better than 7/8 oz in a 28 gauge.

All else equal, it's easier to get a larger bore to pattern well with larger birdshot. If my experience with 12 vs 20 holds, it should be difficult to get the 28 to pattern well with about #6 or larger.

Bought some Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 20 gauge with #4 shot in anticipation of hunting turkeys (1 1/8 oz in a 3" magnum cartridge, IIRC). I fired one round, looked at the resulting pattern, and still have the remaining 24. Not a happy combination. Relatively long shot string, and too small a bore for #4.

It's very simple to ease back the powder and shot just a bit to get controlled recoil loads for the 20. My grandkids have been shooting that for years.

If recoil is the main concern, consider a gas operated semiautomatic in 20 gauge like the Remington 1100. Should be excellent for grouse and the shells are cheaper and easier to find. Shouldn't cost too much if you can find a used one.

We use the 1100 quite successfully starting children trap shooting at 4-H shooting sports. You get the same total recoil but it comes in three "bumps" as the mechanism moves, not more than about half of the total recoil at any "bump." So the recoil feels quite soft.

They tend to be a little heavy with a steel receiver but that too softens recoil. We have a Franchi semiauto youth model - can't think of the exact model - with an alloy receiver. It's lighter and well balanced but a step up in price. (Thanks to Pheasants Forever for donating it to our program.)

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Should add that fit is much more important than gauge in how much recoil a shooter feels. Also noise makes it seem all the worse, hearing protection is a must at least when not afield. Eye protection always.

IMO most definitely. The 28 Ga is the smallest shotshell I have ever used that is a serious hunting round.

StubbleDuck, that was my first shotgun, also, and I still have it, 40-some years later. It has killed a busload of squirrels.

Denton is correct in the superiority of the 28 gauge over the .410 in it's shot string length, the 28 being shorter, which is more desireable.

The 28 is a "big" little gun and shoots better than one would think. The .410 is just the .410 with less range and pattern than the 28.

IMHO.

DF