Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General 25-35

William,

You have said that you have a 25-35AI but that you recommend the 25-35 standard cartridge. Do you mind explaining your rationale for that? I'm at the point where I feel strongly both ways.

I'm attracted to the idea of hotroding the standard case to AI and also of keeping the cartridge standard and finding out what it will do with modern powder and bullets.

Steve

I also have two standard 25-35�s. With a good extractor, the 25-35 loaded to higher pressure is a fine cartridge. I have not encountered case stretching difficulty - which I do hear about from other shooters when loading the standard 25-35 to higher pressures. My case life is excellent.

With the Improved case, you must fire form cases and for my chamber, I must inside ream the case necks. Case life is good so this is a one time operation but it is extra work.
Francis Sell designed his 25-35 Tomcat to use 30-30 cases without inside neck reaming.

For use as a walk around varminter, I believe you will be well served with the standard case for use with 100-grain and lighter bullets. The 117-grain bullets can be pushed quite fast with a strong action but my experience indicates I have quicker results on deer using the 100-grain bullets - my West Texas deer are not heavy bodied and I try for heart shots with the 25-35.

I was hoping another 25-35AI shooter would come out of the woodwork but I have met few - as in ONE - on the internet.
The modern 25-35 rifle offers a lot of experimentation and with the wide variety of suitable component powders and .25 caliber bullets available you will be shooting quite awhile before running out of new things to try.

William,

I respect you and your advice. The standard 25-35 it will be.

Thank you for your help. Lord knows I needed it!

Steve

Well, I hoped you would get additional input.
I don�t know how big your varmints are but the 75-grain Hornady Vmax will get 2,900 fps from 32.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget in the 1-14� twist 22� barrel. If you sight your rifle in at 150 yards you will be able to hold on most critters out to 200 yards. Your faster twist barrel may require altering this load slightly but I believe you will have little trouble equaling it.
When you get your rifle built I�ll try to get Greg Mushial from GMDR to join in the discussion. Greg had a fine slow twist 25-35. He was trying to build another but I have not heard from him in awhile. Between us we had gathered a fair amount of information about the older varmint rifles. It fun to talk about.

I have my great grandfather's 1894 Saddle Ring Carbine .25-35win made in 1906. He carried it horseback when he was the manager of a chicle plantation in old Mexico 1906-1909. I've killed a few deer with it.

Saweet!

Dober

DD

I visited a few gun stores in San Angelo last week and the Outdoorsman has two Model 94�s, a rifle and a carbine in 25-35. The carbine is very nice with an excellent finish and wood. The rifle has seen quite a bit of use but is also in excellent condition. Two very nice rifles with the correct sights. Unfortunately, the carbine is priced at $1,400.00 and the rifle at $1,200.00 which takes them out of my �impulse buying� range.

Here's mine on my latest hunt. No blood on it yet, unfortunately. She shoots straight though.

I will be re-barreling something to 25-35 in the near future. I have a 1899 savage that was a basket case when I received it or a 94 Win. that is now a 25-35 but the barrel is quite worn. It shoots Rem 86 gr, or 100 gr. pointed fed 1 by 1, but will not shoot Horn 117 gr. The question is the twist. As I understand some Win, 94s were 9 twist and possibly some were slower. But since the bullet speed will be slower than a 250 Sav. or 25-06 the twist needs to be faster. I would even consider an 8 twist as I doubt you would over stabilize it.

What experience have others had?

My Winchester has a 1 in 8" twist. At 2,200fps this bullet would be spinning a rough 200,000 rpm.
In the new Angle Eject Winchester with 20" barrel I push the 117-grain Hornady 2,350 fps+ with no difficulty using Alliant Reloder 15 and 10X.
A fune cartridge to load for, shoot and hunt with.

That is interesting I did not know Winchester used a 8 twist.

I have a re-barreled 336 marlin with a 1 in 10" twist that shoots the hornaday 117 grs just fine.

William...i shoot both the 25/35, and the Ackley Improved version also, although not in levergun format....yet.

my 25/35 is a 22" tapered light weight Contender carbine...makes for a nice walking gun. that one is a 1-10 twist, and shoots 100's pretty well, although i chased hogs a few years back with factory 117's.

my 25/35 Ackley is a 15" bull by Match Grade Machine, also a 1-10, built on a shilen blank. superb shooter...i shoot more 85's/87's in it than anything else, but it does about as well with 100's. never tried any heavies in it yet.

reloder-15 has done well for me in the 25/35AI...in the standard version, been shooting varget, IMR3031, and H4895.

what has been your "go-to" powder for loading the 25/35AI?

The internet is interesting. Marlin 25-35�s and TC�s with 25-35AI�s with some simple posts! That is some very good shooting with a handgun.

I agree the 1-10� twist is probably my dream barrel for the 25 Remington and the 25-35. I see both cartridges at their best with the 100-grain bullets.

My 25-35AI barrel is a 24� TC and I like Alliant Reloder 10X best. I alternate between 29.0 grains (2,719 fps) and 30.0 grains at 2,788 fps. There is not a lot of difference between the two loads accuracy wise. Both loads will shoot less than 1� with bulk Remington bullets and the premium bullets are only limited by my mediocre skill at the bench. This barrel and frame combination are best describes as �eager,� they shot so well I do not want to separate them.

For maximum velocity, I switch to Alliant Reloder 15 as you mentioned. The bulk 100-grain Remington bullets ahead of 35.5 grains give me 2,926 fps and 36.0 grains will beat 2,970 fps. I insisted I had to shoot a 3,000 fps load in this rifle and 36.5 grains of Reloder 15 will just top 3,000 fps, hitting 3.010 fps with no case life problems and no extraction trouble. While this is a good load, I don�t have to shoot it every day and the 2,900 fps loads work fine. I like the 24� barrel for it low muzzle blast, there is no fuss or muss with this rifle and cartridge.

34.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895 will deliver 2,903 fps with equal accuracy. Hodgdon 4895 is an easy powder to load in the 25-35AI. The 34.0 grain is best in my rifle with everything seeming to be �in balance.�

For group shooting at 100-yards 28.0 grains of Alliant Reloader [10X]will deliver 2,660 fps and I am able to approach a half inch - but I cannot quite say I get there.

With the 117-grain Sierra bullets I manage to stuff 40.0 grains of IMR 4350 in the case and seat the bullets to 2.750� COAL and this load will deliver 2,820 fps.
Reloder 15 will do the same thing with a different muzzle report, this is not to say the load is �stressed,� it just sounds different. 36.5 grains of Reloder 15 will give 2,970 fps and the load is easy to shoot.

These loads are all put up in formed R-P 30-30 brass with the necks inside reamed.

IMR 4320 is a favorite powder in the standard 25-35 but in the Improved case I have not been able to develop the accuracy other powders are capable of deliering. I am surprised Reloder 10X delivers such accuracy and velocity in the standard 25-35 and the Improved case but I find it delivers top performance with the 100-grain bullets.

I would like to have a 24� 1-10� barrel 25-35 Tomcat in a Marlin or Winchester AE. Maybe some one with a .25 Bullberry will post.


[Edit] I added 10X to the accuracy data to clear up the powder type. You are in Oklahoma, have you been over to see David White?

i hadnt tried Rl-10 in the 25/35ai, although i will...i shoot it lot in my 6.8's, and just loaded a batch of test loads with 10x in the .17Fireball also.

wonder if there would be any feeding issues in working the 25/35AI or the Tomcat in a lever?

i had a .25bullberry as well...i have a .25fetish i guess. but it was sandwiched in between my 25/35, a .25TCU, a .25classic, and my .257jdj, and the 25-35AI..finally sold the .25bullberry, and fire formed the rest of my brass to .25/35AI.

havent seen David....other than SSK rechambering a few for me, have not needed much 'smithing done.

had been toying with my imagined need for a 24" fluted carbine barrel in 25/35Ackley as a companion for my pistol barrel.

ever try any 75's in your 25/35's for plinking/yotes/etc?

william..i looked back a few pages and saw you mention the 75vmax...its on my list of "to try".

i ended up with a full 1 gallon container of speer 75FNSP's for my 25/20's, and pushed fast, they have great splatter effect. not a great long range bullets, but out to 100 or so...

had forgotten to as you about case forming on your 25/35AI's...
i usually take my 30-30 brass, run it through my 7x30waters die first, then neck to .25 and fireform.

subsequent firings get neck sized only...but, if case bodies get a tad plump, in my guns, i can use the FL sizer die from my .375win set to perfectly reduce case bodies again without bumping shoulders back.

Some great info. here. Rimfire- How fast are you running those ii7 bullets in your 336? Both of my actions are older and I dont want to push them to much. The 94 has been in the family since 1936 And other than the poor barrel seems to work fine. I just like to shoot whatever is in my gun room.

Not sure how fast they are going. My load is 26gr. IMR4320.The barrel is 26" on a 1949 336 action. 2" 10 shot groups are normal at 100 yds.using receiver sight.

Francis Sell reported no modifications to his Marlin rifle and no feeding issues. The Tomcat is a relatively minor �Improvement.�
I like the shape of the Bullberry cartridge.
I have extraction trouble with the standard 25-35 in the TC Contender using published load data. I figure the mild Improvement of the case will eliminate extraction trouble without serious case forming woes.
David is a good gunsmith and he can shoot a contender very well. He set up a 17 Ackley Hornet for my wife and it is a very accurate barrel for us.

There are days when I wish I had a heavier outfit than the 24� Contender with scope. I believe one or two pounds additional weight would help my shooting from field positions but I may wrong. If a guy had a Ruger No. 3 like our 7X57 friend, he might have an ideal walking around rifle. General Vernon MeGee had a Ruger No. 1 light rifle barreled for the 32 S&W Long cartridge and he thought he had a good light varmint rig for Central Texas.

In both the standard and the Improved 25-35 I cannot write enough words of praise for the 75-grain Sierra JHP bullet. This bullet is both accurate and a killer on coyote and feral dogs - this is sheep and goat country and dogs are a problem. The 75-grain Sierra will remain in a 40 lb critter and if it does not kill instantly, it will anchor them on the spot. Not all walking around shots are from ideal positions and time is important.
The 75-grain Hornady V-Max is another accurate and capable bullet. Greg Mushial recommended a load of 27.0 grains of Accurate Arms 2520 in the standard 25-35 and it worked well in my rifle too. This load giving 2,550 fps in the 24� barrel - with sticky extraction due to the Contenders extraction system. Less velocity but no extraction issues in the Model 94AE when loaded singly. The V-Max is tough enough to take on a Chow dog at 90 yards. Dogs with thick coats will defeat some varmint bullets and I am hesitant to move away from successful combinations.

I like the 75-grain Speer FN bullet in the 25-20. This is a good bullet that is not particularly fragile in the 25-20. The bullet will expand and penetrate at 25-20 velocities. How did you get a bucket full?

You are forming cases the cheapest way. The 7-30 Waters die is a good intermediate die. The 375 Winchester die is a good base sizing die and I use mine for the same purpose.
I have 219 Zipper and 219 Wasp form dies so I have other options.

Rimfire, I can tell you a 26� 30-30 is quite a bit of fun. I�ll bet your rifle is a quiet and fun rifle to carry and shoot. I�ll wager your load is nudging 2,350 fps.

saw an ad posted on a forum several years ago from a fellow that mentioned he had lots of those speer 75's. i think he had been silhouette shooting with a .256winmag, those seemed like just the thing for me to feed my small-cased .25's. we struck a deal. they have been a favorite in my 20" 25/20 contender carbine.

all top end loads in my 25/35 barrels also had sticky extraction.

think i'll load up some of the 75 sierras this week in the 25/35 to try next time we are calling yotes..they shot well in my .257TCU.