Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting .264 win mag / 140 Amax - load info?

a little off topic, but was in Sportsman's Warehouse tonight and some black guy working there, was recommending powder to some California looking guy ( well dress and well groomed by local standards is what that means..)

They were discussing a 257 Weatherby...the SW guy was telling the customer he shoots a 257 WBY for deer and a 338/378 WBY for elk..

the customer was asking for powder and bullet recommendations...

the sales guy said he uses 117 grain RN Hornadys in the 257... and recommended 4 slow burning powders...

when the customer asked about what kind of velocities to expect, the salesman told him to expect a lot faster than factory ammo...

the 257 WBY and 117 grain bullets would be well over 4500 fps..

and then when the customer asked about the 338/378 WBY's potential, the black guy told him that he gets over 4000 fps with a 300 grain Sierra Match King...

which was furtherly humorous as the black guy was about 5ft 7 and weighed maybe 130 lbs...

after loading up the customers cart with all that stuff, he tells him " let me show ya this new Savage 338 Lapua we just got in!"

I guess BS does sell product, but I don't think this customer is going to be a happy customer when he checks out his results against the salesman's claims..

I walked past while the customer was fondling the Savage 338 Lapua and the sales guy was telling him with a good $2000.00 scope, one could easily take elk between 1000 to 1500 yards or more!...

I was being good... I didn't laugh out loud...I didn't tell the customer the guy was full of scheiss...I just smiled to myself and walked on my way...

Things are really bad when the POTUS has to take a part-time job at a sporting goods store........

Those numbers are legit!

I wonder what that clerks work record was ?

Not to sound like a Redneck... but this area is so whitebread... minus the Mexicans... Black folk are a real rarity here... and then a black guy in a sporting goods store is even more rare...

I'm not judging his personality... or basing anything on his skin color... but his honesty or lack of it, made me feel he should be peddling sporting goods at Walmart instead...

Seafire,
Ignorance is bliss. There is a good chance that the customer will never look up actual numbers but rather repeat what he was told to his friends as if it was gospel. He'll buy a couple of boxes of factory ammo, shoot at stuff, occasionally hit something, and be happy.

http://www.realguns.com/articles/330.htm some recently tested loads in this article. Remington Sendereo.

Retumbo, RL25, N570, H1000, RS Magnum gave some good velocities with 140-grain SST and Partitions.

I do not know if Hornady would say that A-Max and SST load the same.

Thanks for the link.

Um ... they went a lot farther than I did. Example, 140 partition with Retumbo. I stopped at Hodgdon's listed max of 63.5 grains. I hadn't gotten sticky bolt lift but I sure had some massively cratered primers. No way would I want to try to approach the 71.5 grains they listed in the article.

So .. it's good info, but definitely approach with caution.

Far as AMAX and SST ... dunno, but I found that ... I assume because of differences in bearing surface ... I can pour a lot more coal behind the AMAX than the partition.

Before I shoot my gun any more I need better optics. I'm shooting better than I can repeatably see. Got the ammo loaded but I think it'll be after Christmas before I shoot groups again.

Tom

He refers to Norma brass, which could be a factor. (A note in a metallic cartridge manual mentions forming .340 Wby brass from 8mm Rem brass and that the internal volume is about 5% less than Wby/Norma .340 brass. Said that max loads for Wby/Norma should be reduced 5% to accommodate the diff. If the max is 88 grains MRP for Wby/Norma, then it is about 83.5 grains in Rem brass. 4.5 grains looks like a lot to me.)

Quoting from the article:
"The data that appears on the handload table that follows is predicated on the use of once fired brass and this is not a minor factor. Nominal capacity for the 264 Winchester Magnum is 82 grains. New Norma brass checked at 85.5 grains and once fired Norma brass checked in the 88.0 grain range. That is a lot of differential when a 2.5 grain capacity change could mean a 12,000 PSI swing in pressure with an identical powder charge. Properly managed, the larger capacity case could yield an additional 25 - 40 fps while maintaining safe pressure levels."

Norma brass starts at 4% more internal volume than 'standard'. Gets up around 7% more internal volume once fired.

Ramshot 4.5 data:
Magnum 140 HDY A-Max 61.5 2,754 68.3 3,049 63,304 3.210
At that pressure, it's max in their 24" test barrel. WLRM primer.

Realguns tested at 69.5 grains RS Magnum with 140-gr SST in the Sendero. About 2% over RS data.

I think that is a false assumption they're making.

The difference in case volume at ambient conditions is essentially irrelevant, by the time the pressure has built to 35,000 PSI or so on it's way to full pressure, that new case has been blown out to the same volume as the once fired case.

I've never seen the slightest difference between new and fired cases from the same lot with the same bullet and charge. It seems to me just one more shaky assumption that brings the reliability of all of their information into question.

... but that's just me.

I think he means it is easier to put a large powder load into the once fired case. I doubt he considers the expanding brass resistant enough to act like a smaller internal volume case for developing pressure.

I took a look at the link provided and will tell you that the "data" they are "publishing" is VERY OPTIMISTIC, if you know what I mean

I was kinda wondering what other people are using under the 140 AMAX? Lookin' for info on 7828, MagPro, RL25.If it doesn't shoot that bullet good, I'll be a little disappointed but ok 'cause it is really shooting the 120 grain ballistic tip pretty well. I went under .6 at 200 with H4831.

My 264 loves the H4831.100gr ballistic tip, 100gr HP, 95gr Vmax all with 72grs H4831

Data at Hodgdon site for Retumbo is confusing - more powder for 160-gr than for 140-gr bullets. I think the same relationship appears there for all of the powders used with 140- and 160-gr bullets. Different bullets - 140-gr NP vs 160-gr Hdy RN - could they be so different in construction that max loads with the 160-gr Hdy use more powder than the 140-gr NP, and show lower pressures? Maybe, the lead in the shank of the NP slugs up, and causes a major increase in pressure over other bullet types?

Hodgdon data cut/paste to avoid typos:

140 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon Retumbo .264" 3.260" 59.7 2904 57,000 PSI 63.5 3026 63,000 PSI
160 GR. HDY RN Hodgdon Retumbo .264" 3.350" 60.2 2703 54,800 PSI 64.0 2846 61.000 PSI

Did they get data for the two bullet weights reversed? The velocities seem right.