Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Shooting for groups......................

I'd like to spend some time dialing in some different rifles at 400-600 meters and checking the tracking on my scopes as well. I don't have much experience past 400 meters so I'd appreciate some input on bags/rests and/or proper technique. I have no plans on ever competing from the bench so I don't want to spend a lot on equipment but I would like to find something more stable than my range bag to help me get everything set up. Thanks!!

If you mean for a bench, the Caldwell "Rock" is a pretty good rest for it's low price. I fill the small bag with lead shot for more weight. There are a number of low cost leather rabbit ear rest on the market.

I'm not an expert by any means, but find typical BR style is the most comfy for me. You should be able to find some pics online and there are books on the subject as well. If a righty, you gently squeeze the rabit ears with your left hand for minor adjustments while left elbow rested, your right elbow will rest on a pad or folded towel, right hand very light on the palm.. When you are setting up, snap a few dry fires. When you are set right, the x hairs shouldnt move at all on the snap. Totally relax, don't tense up. It takes alot of practice to do it with rigs that have a stout recoil. I took me a while to get used to light weight nonbraked magnum rifles with that form and being totally relaxed, you definitely should build up to that IMO to avoid any bad habits.

loder

Some excellent sand and toe bags can be made from kids blue jeans. (@$1.00 at car port sales) I had a seamstress sew me up some and she even made a tote handle out of the extra pants seams.

This is just me, but I do all my longer range work off the ground. Either off a day pack or off a bipod on the front and a rear bad of some sort.

Dober

Thanks fellas!

Same here Mark. I even do all my load work up while shooting prone w/bipod and rear bag. I feel much more comfortable there than on a bench.

I've done all my long range work either prone off a backpack or some other MPAJ position.

Haven't seen that for a while. laffin

I do my load testing typically at night if I"m serious, no mirage and usually can find no wind....

Doing it off a field prone position is fine too, but I don't think it milks out the last nth of accuracy, BUT it will tell you what field accuracy is. Thats two seperate things for me. I try to tweak it all to the best first, then worry about zero's.

Seems like you are load settled and after zero's.

A few things. Remember, wind can be 10 times different on the way to the target.
The wind closest to you is the worst, the wind further downrange does not affect as much.
You have to have a perfect NPA natural point of aim.
Your body has to recoil with the gun straight back... if it recoils and the gun lands to one side or the other of your target, your NPA is off OR you have not the same repeatable body tension for the weapon.

Wind is one factor.
Mirage is a TOTALLY seperate one.

Before you start to shoot, test your position by dry firing until you dry fire and the gun does NOT move any. If its moving at the "hammer" drop, YOU still have work to do on the position.

Tracking for me.... shoot and get zero's and do it again on other days to confirm.

Windage notes, make sure you record WHAT conditions you shoot in, vs what correction was. Without that, shooting for practice does you no good at all. Even if its as simple as.... past 300 yards I will NOT shoot in a wind over X mph.

I'm repeating some stuff here that others put up... but relaxed body is your friend, NO muscle tension to speak of and you fire on your natural respiratory pause, you do not hold your breath, exhale normally and you have about 2-5 seconds to break the shot max, before you stop and recycle a few breaths and relax again and try again.

Shot has to come basically as a complete surprise.

Now that I"ve said all that you have to learn where you have to be perfect on the gun and where you can push the gun fast, the trigger fast etc.... you'll have some scenarios like above.. lets just say 200 and under I can press the trigger in a hurry, and not be perfect on any of the above and still kill a deer. And a prairie dog probably. But not a fly.....

Typically vitals are a large enough target.

As SSG Praslik always said, you ahve to be smooth on the trigger. Don't care if you are smooth, ssmmoooottthhhh or sssssssmmmmmmoooooootttttttthhhhh, as long as your are smooth, you are good.

Thanks for the responses.

I usually hold the grip firmly with my right hand and pull it into my shoulder. I then put the web of my left hand under the butt of the stock.

So.....if you don't use any muscle tension on the rifle - how are you holding it to avoiding getting "bit" by the scope?

I use a sling or bipod. My bipod guns won't come close to getting bit by the scope.

The sling prevents the rest of them. Of course you have to have some muscle tension while shooting, but the point is make your position a kind of bone to bone contact one, as much as you can, so that you don't rely on extra muscle tension to "correct" the sigth picture and fire with.

I really do wiht slings, if I'm checking NPA, exhale and just make myself totally relax, if the gun isn't there I work the position some more. Never fix a problem with muscle tension.

IF I have a lighter gun thats a recoiler say while hunting and using a rest, I just put my non firing hand over teh scope and relax that arm/hand limp then... IE the weight of it but no tension agian. It'll slow it down enough for any normal round one wants to shoot. Maybe not a 378 wtby light rifle...but the rest fine.

rost495 has it right, IMO.

I shoot for zero off a good a rest & bench before moving to field positions & off backpacks, etc.

I use large & heavy sandbags off the bench for zeroing at whatever range........Actually, a Bulls Bag on top of 4 other stacked bags for the front with a fairly heavy rabbit ear bag on top of another bag in the rear.

Altogether, I probably have 75 lb of sand on the bench.

The end result is all that matters though & everyone has their own preferences.

MM

You use scopes that have enough eye relief for the cartridge you're shooting.

Have used many vises/rests, just don't like them. Shoot all my rifles with harris bipod and rear rabbit ear sandbag. Mainly fire up to 300WBY rifles, mostly 7mms. I make sure rifle is level and pointed at intended target. Mount rifle with the least amount of touching possible. Shoulder barely on pad, hands just lightly cradling grip. I want to remove all possible pressure on rifle. Squeeze easy and should be somewhat surprised at engagement. Get excellent groups if I am up to it. I am a glasses wearer and rarely get bit. Also may help(shooting), I am 280lbs. Don't have alot of flinch issues (lucky?). I have range right outside my door, live on ranch and shoot several times per week working on different guns. Shoot to 600yds but mostly 100-400. Good Luck, TG

The harris bipod will give worse accuracy than sandbags. But they are the only good hunting bipod. You don't see anyone running them in f class where you are allowed a bipod because they are way to much shot to shot sensitive and sensitive to body tension shot to shot.

That being said, I start on bags to zero initial, verify off the bipod and get distance zero's off the bipod as thats where I generally will be making long shots from, the bipod. Even if I were to make a long shot out of my deer blind, I'd crawl down and go prone to make it.

When I go off the bench, I use a set of the Caldwell bags. They are not very expensive, and I filled them with rice. Good stability without too much weight. On the ground, I use a bipod, either a 6-9 or a 9-13. The 6 is preferable, it does not get you up high and is more stable. The 9 is necessary for tall grass and such. Rear bag really helps. Much more stable and repeatable. As Jeff has stated, consistency is the key. Same break every time. Remove as many variables as possible. When consistency is good, then shoot in field positions. Performance off bags may be different than on ground. If you can't hit in the field, your practice at the bench is wasted time.

I like to do that too, but if the ground is wet and muddy, I much prefer setting up a portable bench.In wet condition, a ground sheet can help, but I still prefer the bench.

Of course, sometimes getting a bench to the firing point is just not practical, so prone is the way to go...

Just curious, but just how much shot to shot variation do you see with the Harris? I know any amount is too much for an F Class shooter, but wondered how its likely to affect us lesser mortals??

Regards,

Peter

ask an F class shooter. I shoot irons to this point.

All I'm saying is that I know a couple of good F class shooters and they won't shoot a harris due to repeatablility issues.

My guess is first the feet don't slide on recoil so they kinda hop around, and the springs on there probably vibrate differently from shot to shot.

I'll say this much, at 700 yards off the bench without a bipod I can shoot around 3 inch groups on average. Put it on a bipod and that moves up to around 4 inches almost, but if I pay attention its not enough to matter, if I get sloppy about things setting up for the shot it can go up to MOA groups. I haven't shot much past 700 with the harris at this point. When I have longer shots i get a pack out and go prone over the pack instead.

BTW I'm only a mere mortal also.... just didn't want that spread around that I was a bad azz or such... I can hold my own most days but there are many better shooters than I.