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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
I don't see how you guys can't see a difference. The bigger difference I have seen has been shot placement as opposed to energy. As an example, I shot a mature bull elk through the back of the lungs (12" or so behind the shoulder) and shot it three more times during the three or four minutes the bull wondered for a couple of hundred yards through the trees before going down. The load was a 168 TSX started at 3200 fps out of a .300 Winchester, so impact velocity was 3100 fps or so (and it did expand in that I could put three fingers in the exit from the first shot). Thrity six hours later the individual I was hunting with shot a similar 6x6 at 400 yards with a 168 TSX started out of a .30-06 at 2900 fps. Not sure of the impact velocity, but I imagine it was not much if any over 2000 fps. The elk was hit an inch or so behind the shoulder and went down within 20 yards and about 15 seconds. Above is an example of one, but in my experience animals hit right with an adequate caliber and bullet go down quickly whereas those hit on the fringes of the vitals can go a long way and once they're going, the adreline starts flowing and they get hard to put down. If the load has adequate penetration and expansion and on non-dangerous game most anything .270 and above should with modern bullets, shot placement matters more than head stamp. Spoken like a true champion...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
People who quote energy figures usually have the least experience killing game IME.
What have you killed this year, brad? 1 bull elk, 1 cow elk... so far.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7 |
So what's the matter? Someone posts some numbers that show something, and you have to take a cheap shot to try to prove something in an otherwise civil conversation? I thought maybe you were frustrated with your hunting this season. I saw you made a previous post, and quickly deleted it. I figured you were trolling around waiting to take a shot at somebody but didn't have the balls to do it yet.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Nothing is the matter... stating an observation I've made over the years.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7 |
So why the cheap shot? Posting your "observation" after I posted energy numbers is obviously a shot at me. You that bored?
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197 |
Is it winter already?.....laffin!
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
No cheap shot. It's an observation. You're resorting to a sophomoric argument in favor of your weapon of choice for moose. You want to use it and feel the need for it, that's great... this is all fun and games. However, I just find your justification's funny... especially given the fact, for their size, moose are known to be "soft" compared to elk. And I've seen more elk fall to the 270 than any other cartridge...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Energy in of itself means nothing to me.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Is it winter already?.....laffin! Sho-nuff is... pretty winter day here! 
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7 |
No cheap shot. It's an observation. You're resorting to a sophomoric argument in favor of your weapon of choice for moose. You want to use it and feel the need for it, that's great... this is all fun and games. However, I just find your justification's funny... especially given the fact, for their size, moose are known to be "soft" compared to elk. And I've seen more elk fall to the 270 than any other cartridge...
So what exactly is my sophomoric argument that isn't up to your standards and not up the standards of the campfire? I've stated that I've used the 338 Rum on big game animals, I see it hit harder than non-magnums, and I see it having a place in my rifle battery. Why the typical Brad cheap shot? Is it that you now have a new 270 and that everything else is inferior?
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Nope, find quoting energy figures sophomoric.
I'll happily use most any cartridge on the likes of elk and moose and won't make any energy arguments to convince myself or others as to my choices.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
The 338 Rum flat out kills in a fashion that a 270 can't even come close to.
Here's more of the sophomoric stuff... pretty funny really.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Would add Calvin, your argument seems to be that somehow your moose is more dead than if you'd shot him in the same spot with a good bullet from a 270 (how much dead is enough dead). I've used and seen enough magnum 33's to know that ain't true.
Will say, often the bigger 33's give more of an indication of a hit (though not always), but they don't end up more dead.
Just sayin...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7 |
So basically anybody who quotes energy figures is going to be subject to classic Brad cheap shots, deleted posts, and thread derailment. You should put that in your sig line so that people be warned.
So anyways, what species have you killed with the 338 Rum to base your opinion on?
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7 |
Would add Calvin, your argument seems to be that somehow your moose is more dead than if you'd shot him in the same spot with a good bullet from a 270. I've used and seen enough magnum 33's to know that ain't true. Will say, often the bigger 33's give more of an indication of a hit, but they don't end up more dead.
Just sayin... No, if you'd read what I said.. I said that I would rather have my 338 Rum than a 270 Win with a 150 Partition with a lake directly adjacent to the moose, and me not wanting to go swimming after the moose. 10 more feet and I'd have been swimming after it. Never said that a 270 wouldn't kill it, just said that I see certain situations where I'd rather have a RUM. Go back and actually read the thread.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
How many moose have you shot with the 270 to form your opinion that "The 338 Rum flat out kills in a fashion that a 270 can't even come close to."..?
I've used the 338 WM on elk, and seen the 340 Wby used. That's my experience with mag 33's.
Have seen bull Moose shot in Alaska, up close and personal... they didn't especially strike me as all that hard to kill.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,457 Likes: 7 |
Moose aren't hard to kill, but they do have a habit of ending up in water, which was my point.
Didn't think you had any experience with the 338 Rum, which is basically what Seyfried's article is about. The 338 and 300 Rum. I've killed Moose, brown bear, black bear, and deer with the 338RUM. I've killed black bear and deer with the 270 to form my opinion. The 338 Rum hits harder, and creates a more devastating wound, in my experience, than the 270 win. Seyfried despises the Rums, I see a need for them in my battery.
The first year I went moose hunting, I took my 30-06 with 168gr TSX. I would not have taken a head on, 300 yd + shot if I was carrying it this year. I was confident taking that shot with the 338 Rum, based on what I had seen it do to a kodiak brown bear this spring, and other animals I had taken with it.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
I don't think twice about toting my 243(ai) for medium sized game. (deer) I'd stretch it out without hesitating to my personal limit. (500yds) I shoot the 105 Scenar. So using a 243/105 at 500 yards on deer is different than using a 270 on a moose at 300? Not saying the 338 RUM isn't an awesome round... just betting a properly placed 270/150 NP would have/could have given exactly the same result, perhaps minus a little bit of the already dead moose shuddering.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I'd have thrown a 62gr TSX into it's brain pan....
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
I'd have thrown a 62gr TSX into it's brain pan.... And I bet it'd drop on the spot...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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