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You found elk at a low 7300 ft? What time of the year was that?
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Mid October I believe. 13-17th?
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I wish they'd do that where I live. I live next to the winter range, and it's 8000ft. They aren't here until Dec at the earliest.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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He hadn't shot the rifle at beyond 100 yards, and hadn't bothered to look at a trajectory table.... That's the problem right there...... One memorable time,I passed on a big bull elk at 550-600 yards not because of distance, but because of a very strong full value wind. I "knew" the bullet would be drifted but was unwilling to gamble on how much.I also knew, comparing the bull with reticle subtension of the scope, that I was dealing with 550-600 yards. Funny thing is this all occured back in the pre LRF days,and the scope was a lowly 4x28 Leupold;the rifle a long throat 300 Win Mag that started a 180 NPT at 3140 fps. I "knew" through extensive range time,that,zeroed exactly 3" high @100 yards, the rifle struck POA at 300 yards.And the load was down 48" at 600,which coincidentally, was exactly where the bottom point of the Duplex reticle rested at 600 yards. I also knew the load was down about 10" at 400 yards,and about 25" at 500. I had used this "knowledge" to kill a couple of bulls at the 450-500 yard mark previously. By the time I made my first western hunt many years ago,I had shot a hundreds of eastern woodchucks with everything from a 222 and 220 Swift to a 7 Rem Mag;not to mention a few thousand rounds at our local range at 200 to 600 yards.So,on my first antelope,after we made a very educated guess as to distance,again using the scope reticle,a sliver of daylight resulted in a center chest hit with the 270 that dropped him where he stood.No I wasn't "guessing"....  My 375H&H is zeroed 3" high with a 250 Sierra and 250 BBC @2900+fps;it is 5" low and 300 and 14" low at 400.This is about what you get with a 270 Winchester and 150 gr bullet, or a 30/06 with 165's, the reason I scratch my head when people tell me the 375H&H has a trajectory like lobbing watermelons underhanded.Fact of the matter is that load will stay with a 338 or 340 Weatherby to 400-500 yards...we know because we have shot them side by side. Killing with such outfits to 400 or so yards should be easy for anyone who has put in the range time to figure out this very simple stuff....and "no" you aren't holding in "thin air", and "guessing" as the turret boys like to tell you.On any Leupold fixed 4X or 6X,or any variable with a Duplex reticle,with a flat shooting rifle, you have the tool to kill even to 500 yards, if you know how to use it. These days, dotz make it even easier.Using the 6x36 Leupold and LR reticle at 600 yards,I notice the horizontal crosshair is kinda hangin exactly where it did for me in relation to the bottom post, years back......nothing is really "new",and gravity is constant.  But you do have to shoot to figure this stuff out,and many simply do not do the range time and round count required to make this intuitive in the field.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob
What seems odd to me is how many people buy the latest rifle, scope, bullet and laser range finder, then never shoot them past 100 yards, where they measure the groups to the nearest 0.001 inch.
Shooting at 300 yards will tell you lots more about how the trajectory of a load matches up to the theoretical drop, and whether or not that rifle/load combo holds it's accuracy at longer range. Some rifle are very accurate at 100 yards but the groups go to hell at 300 yards. Could be a scope issue, bullet issue, who knows why, but I darn sure want to know "if".
I am a little less than overwhelmed by the scopes with the dots and gee-jaws because on the two I have, the parallax at 300 yards is about half the distance between the 200 and the 300 yard dots.
Fred
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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He hadn't shot the rifle at beyond 100 yards, and hadn't bothered to look at a trajectory table.... That's the problem right there...... One memorable time,I passed on a big bull elk at 550-600 yards not because of distance, but because of a very strong full value wind. I "knew" the bullet would be drifted but was unwilling to gamble on how much.I also knew, comparing the bull with reticle subtension of the scope, that I was dealing with 550-600 yards. Funny thing is this all occured back in the pre LRF days,and the scope was a lowly 4x28 Leupold;the rifle a long throat 300 Win Mag that started a 180 NPT at 3140 fps. I "knew" through extensive range time,that,zeroed exactly 3" high @100 yards, the rifle struck POA at 300 yards.And the load was down 48" at 600,which coincidentally, was exactly where the bottom point of the Duplex reticle rested at 600 yards. I also knew the load was down about 10" at 400 yards,and about 25" at 500. I had used this "knowledge" to kill a couple of bulls at the 450-500 yard mark previously. By the time I made my first western hunt many years ago,I had shot a hundreds of eastern woodchucks with everything from a 222 and 220 Swift to a 7 Rem Mag;not to mention a few thousand rounds at our local range at 200 to 600 yards.So,on my first antelope,after we made a very educated guess as to distance,again using the scope reticle,a sliver of daylight resulted in a center chest hit with the 270 that dropped him where he stood.No I wasn't "guessing".... My 375H&H is zeroed 3" high with a 250 Sierra and 250 BBC @2900+fps;it is 5" low and 300 and 14" low at 400.This is about what you get with a 270 Winchester and 150 gr bullet, or a 30/06 with 165's, the reason I scratch my head when people tell me the 375H&H has a trajectory like lobbing watermelons underhanded.Fact of the matter is that load will stay with a 338 or 340 Weatherby to 400-500 yards...we know because we have shot them side by side. Killing with such outfits to 400 or so yards should be easy for anyone who has put in the range time to figure out this very simple stuff....and "no" you aren't holding in "thin air", and "guessing" as the turret boys like to tell you.On any Leupold fixed 4X or 6X,or any variable with a Duplex reticle,with a flat shooting rifle, you have the tool to kill even to 500 yards, if you know how to use it. These days, dotz make it even easier.Using the 6x36 Leupold and LR reticle at 600 yards,I notice the horizontal crosshair is kinda hangin exactly where it did for me in relation to the bottom post, years back......nothing is really "new",and gravity is constant. But you do have to shoot to figure this stuff out,and many simply do not do the range time and round count required to make this intuitive in the field. Another great post. I love your writing style Bob....Keep up the good work..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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I just got back from eastern Idaho and hit over 7,000 feet on foot several times. The elk were still above me. Snow was hard packed so very difficult to hike uphill in! I did not connect.
I have passed up numerous shots because of presentation and distance probably distance more than presentation.
I shoot a 300 win mag and consider 300 yards in good conditions a slam dunk, and 400 starting to stretch it a bit. A BDC reticle scope is going to fix this problem. Bob very nice post
Last edited by Elkmen; 12/05/11.
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I'll pass up on elk because of the shot, or because of the yardage. But anymore, I pass up on elk at times because I'm not sure how I'll be able to get it out... due to the time I have available, because I am by myself, or because I don't want to deal with or rent mules or horses.
Steve
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Everyone talks about these 300-400yard shots. I must hunt in some darn different country. I can only remember three times where I have shot anywhere near that distance. Even on pronghorn hunts. I admit my memory isn't all that good,but it is not completely gone either.
I have never sighted in any rifle other than dead on at 100yards. I do carry some 180 gr Sierras that print about 2" higher than my 220gr RN though, but have ony used them but once in many years and that ended up a 60 yard shot.
I do find myself putting the safety back on a bit more often nowdays, but if I see an elk at 600 yards and cannot get to it, I usually go find another one.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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saddlesore]Everyone talks about these 300-400yard shots. I must hunt in some darn different country. I can only remember three times where I have shot anywhere near that distance. Even on pronghorn hunts. I admit my memory isn't all that good,but it is not completely gone either.
The last few elk I have killed have been GPS verified at 300, 320, 420, 150, 410, farther back is fairly similar. Closest ever was 17 and farthest has been 420. I hunt in Wyoming, Idaho, and Eastern Oregon. Mostly mountainous with lots of side drainages and openings.
Last edited by Elkmen; 12/05/11.
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Been still hunting timber all my life. 200yds is a long long shot for me. Few enough of them for me to count on one hand.
Getting close is my challenge.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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OK I passed on a elk this year at right around 400 yards. I normaly bowhunt elk and rifle hunt deer. I live in Oregon and have only shot I think one deer at 200 yards. I can live with passing that shot better than screwing up. I am not used to those distances and been spending time at the 300 yard range and some shooting in the woods at that distance. I will say this if I ever go back to CO I will spend time shooting at 400 yards but its not something that I normaly do. If lived out there you bet I would be more familiar with those kind of ranges. Does that make me a bad I have no guilt problems passing up that bull. Plus he was walking.
If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
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You don't need to take long shots here. I never do, and my percentage of kills is way above average.
Elk are in timber way longer than in the open.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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I passed up a shot at a herd bull in NM due to shot presentation. He was behind his cows, turned and walkedstraight away as the cows split and I has his tail in the cross hairs. First day of the hunt, 60-70yrds in the timber, 300wm 180grn interlock. It haunts me, but I've realized that I've shot a lot of game and if I was comfortable with the shot, the trigger would have been tripped. I ended up skunked on the trip.
I wasn't mentally prepared to shoot a herd bull #1 in the head as he was walking in or #2 in the butt as he was going away. Looking back either would have worked more than likely.
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You don't need to take long shots here. I never do, and my percentage of kills is way above average.
Elk are in timber way longer than in the open. Where is "here"?
Steve
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You don't need to take long shots here. I never do, and my percentage of kills is way above average.
Elk are in timber way longer than in the open. Where is "here"? Unit 481 and 55. Sometimes 49.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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You don't need to take long shots here. I never do, and my percentage of kills is way above average.
Elk are in timber way longer than in the open. Where is "here"? Unit 481 and 55. Sometimes 49. Nice...but I didn't mean for you to be even that specific. I grew up hunting 70, 71 and 61. It's probably the same in your units, but there are a lot of animals to be had at all elevations and in all sorts of terrain. However, I sort of took a liking to the meat from elk harvested in the later seasons, a bit after the rut. That means that I'm hunting country that is either in the junipers or open toward the wintering grounds, unless I wanted to hunt on snowmobiles, which I do not. There are a lot more opportunities for longer shots in those areas. And hey, those animals need to be thinned out too, right? Later
Steve
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I've been hunting the muzzleloader season. Which meant up at treeline. I'm going to go for 1st rifle elk next year, and see if I can hunt a bit lower. Hopefully, the weather won't beat me up too bad.
Then I hunt 2nd season for muley's. Sometimes private property in late season if I didn't get an elk yet.
I wouldn't want to hunting this week. Wind chill was -30 yesterday. A bit chilly for me.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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I hear ya there. My brother shot a 4th season cow elk once. I hung my sweaty coat in a tree to help him with it. When I put it back on, it was frozen stiff. That was invigoratin'.
Those early seasons are a blast. The prettiest bull I ever took was with a muzzle loader back before the in-line stuff. But, I really hate dealing with the meat that time of year. Between the flies, warm weather and such, it can be a real headache. Plus, I like to process the meat myself. So, that adds to the headache without a real cool place to hang it for awhile.
I still really like to hunt during archery season. I say hunt...it's more like I just like to play with the elk, enjoy the nose bleed country and see the views. The last 2 years, I haven't been able to let an arrow fly at an elk just because of that. Honestly, it was a bit of a questionable shot because I wasn't sure I could snake an arrow below a branch about mid-way on a nice 6 broadside at about 45 yds....a bit silly, they say I am. It's not like I can't shoot my bow a little, because I did score a turkey and ptarmigan.
Later.
Steve
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I passed on a shot at a White Tail last Saturday. I spotted him walking in to my stand and all I could see was the tail and a little bit of the flank. I had the scope on him and I though I could do this with out making a mess, just hold above the tail and send a bullet into his neck. The only problem was I couldn't see the neck part. So I held off. The distance would have been a long shot for my neck of the woods. About 180 yards give or take some. This week so far has been terrible. temps in the 60's and its been raining steady for two days. The upside is that I had some venison burgers with my neighbors on Saturday. Good Eats!
Last edited by gmsemel; 12/07/11.
"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."
Anton Chekhov
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