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Buffalo Guns of Old #5902305 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,269 Upstate NY EvilTwin OP Campfire Ranger
OP EvilTwin Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,269 Upstate NY	Just some observations. The two guns used primarily were Sharps and Remington rolling blocks with the Sharps being favored. I think it was due in large part to safety reasons. The old cartridges were Berdan primed with the primers being very soft cup percussion caps. Small ones but still percussion caps. Pressing the primer into the pocket seated it up to the anvil in the case. Removal was done with a cap awl. The Sharps had a sliding breechblock which is actually never truly "unlocked" while the Remington was NOT locked at all until the hammer actually struck the primer. At that point,its lock-up is as strong as one could ask for. Picture if you will a high primer and the buff hunter slamming the breech shut on the Remington. OR just as bad, the firing pin on the Remington frozen in fired position by debris or a burr or whatever. The round would fire in a totally unlocked breech with predictable results. The Sharps on the other hand would be nearly shut before the SLIDING breech contacted the high primer. If the round fired prematurely, the damage to the rifleman would be minimized. IMHO, both guns were very accurate rifles chambering powerful cartridges, but at that point in time, the Sharps design gave some peace of mind to men who would be shooting up to 200 rounds DAILY of some mighty powerful stuff. Any other thoughts?? Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!

GB1

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old EvilTwin #5902348 12/10/11
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1 Bozeman, MT shrapnel Campfire Ranger
shrapnel Campfire Ranger Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1 Bozeman, MT	I think the Sharps was the right gun at the right time, just like the Colt SAA. Sure their were contemporary guns similar in what they were designed to do, but they weren't Sharps. The design was simple, the parts were few, the gun was easy to take down and clean/repair and that could be done in the field. Today, we aren't as sensitive about cleaning and repair as they were in those days. Black powder is very dirty and if your gun failed when you were on the plains, you were out of business. I don't care what you say, there isn't a buffalo rifle that will even begin to look as good as a Sharps and life is to short to hunt with an ugly gun...

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old shrapnel #5902377 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,269 Upstate NY EvilTwin OP Campfire Ranger
OP EvilTwin Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,269 Upstate NY	GREAT lookin' guns, but an ugly hunter Have you got yer Cooper Sharps running right yet?? Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old EvilTwin #5902556 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 54,284 Parts unknown... EthanEdwards Campfire Kahuna
EthanEdwards Campfire Kahuna Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 54,284 Parts unknown...	I think you must add the Springfield in there. An awful lot of them used in the early years of the hunt. They were definitely superceded by the two you mention, but Springfields, from what I've read, were pretty common early-on.

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old shrapnel #5902573 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 54,284 Parts unknown... EthanEdwards Campfire Kahuna
EthanEdwards Campfire Kahuna Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 54,284 Parts unknown...	Agree wholeheartedly about the appearance. None look as good. The analogy with the SAA is a good one too. Arguably better guns at the time, but none so when you factor in simplicity and ease-of-repair and ruggedness.

IC B2

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old EthanEdwards #5902649 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,269 Upstate NY EvilTwin OP Campfire Ranger
OP EvilTwin Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,269 Upstate NY	The Springfields were called "needle guns" and were rapidly dumped as the Sharps rifles came on line. The Allyn breech was never a very strong one. Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old EvilTwin #5902780 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming Ranch13 Campfire Tracker
Ranch13 Campfire Tracker Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming	One thing to add, the Sharps co. closed it's doors twice during the buffalo hunt, before they closed up for good,before the buffalo hunt was over. Remington stayed in business. the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to. www.historicshooting.com

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old Ranch13 #5904009 12/10/11
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 42,617 Orange Park, Florida jorgeI Campfire 'Bwana
jorgeI Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 42,617 Orange Park, Florida	ET, where's My Sharps?? A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old Ranch13 #5904049 12/10/11
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978 J jim62 Campfire Tracker
jim62 Campfire Tracker J Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978	Originally Posted by Ranch13 One thing to add, the Sharps co. closed it's doors twice during the buffalo hunt.. Really? Other than a slight interruption in shipping rifles during the move from Hartford to Bridgeport in about 1875 Sharps stayed in business during that time.. To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old EvilTwin #5904067 12/10/11
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978 J jim62 Campfire Tracker
jim62 Campfire Tracker J Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978	Originally Posted by EvilTwin Just some observations. The two guns used primarily were Sharps and Remington rolling blocks with the Sharps being favored. I think it was due in large part to safety reasons. The old cartridges were Berdan primed with the primers being very soft cup percussion caps. Small ones but still percussion caps. Pressing the primer into the pocket seated it up to the anvil in the case. Removal was done with a cap awl. The Sharps had a sliding breechblock which is actually never truly "unlocked" while the Remington was NOT locked at all until the hammer actually struck the primer. At that point,its lock-up is as strong as one could ask for. Picture if you will a high primer and the buff hunter slamming the breech shut on the Remington. OR just as bad, the firing pin on the Remington frozen in fired position by debris or a burr or whatever. The round would fire in a totally unlocked breech with predictable results. The Sharps on the other hand would be nearly shut before the SLIDING breech contacted the high primer. If the round fired prematurely, the damage to the rifleman would be minimized. IMHO, both guns were very accurate rifles chambering powerful cartridges, but at that point in time, the Sharps design gave some peace of mind to men who would be shooting up to 200 rounds DAILY of some mighty powerful stuff. Any other thoughts?? There is also another problem with the Rolling Blocks.. A Remington Rolling block can become and "Auto ejecting" rifle if there is a pierced primer and the gas blow by blows the hammer back far enough to unlock the breech. The same thing can happen if the breech block and hammer locking surfaces are worn or not correctly cut. I have seen this with my own eyes and it's not very amusing. To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

IC B3

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old jim62 #5904121 12/10/11
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 10,005 Likes: 1 J Jericho Campfire Outfitter
Jericho Campfire Outfitter J Joined: May 2002 Posts: 10,005 Likes: 1	jm62, Do you know of any good websites for Remington Rolling Blocks? Not buying/selling, but hunting, collecting, etc/ Last edited by Jericho; 12/10/11.

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old EvilTwin #5904324 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 54,284 Parts unknown... EthanEdwards Campfire Kahuna
EthanEdwards Campfire Kahuna Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 54,284 Parts unknown...	Originally Posted by EvilTwin The Springfields were called "needle guns" and were rapidly dumped as the Sharps rifles came on line. The Allyn breech was never a very strong one. Yes, that's true. Also, much of their use was during the market-meat-hunting years when folks like Buffalo Bill Cody were feeding railroad crews. It's just my opinion that their use was significant enough during the early years of the hide hunt, that they merit inclusion.

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old Jericho #5904583 12/10/11
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978 J jim62 Campfire Tracker
jim62 Campfire Tracker J Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978	Originally Posted by Jericho jm62, Do you know of any good websites for Remington Rolling Blocks? Not buying/selling, but hunting, collecting, etc/ Well just about any BPCR website will have a lot of folks who have experience with them.. And some of them have experience with a lot of other types of BPCR rifles as well. As far as sites with specs and history etc devoted only to Rollers, I don't know of any. BTW, the biggest problem I personally have with Both Remington Rolling Blocks and Hepburns is not safety. It's the angle of the rear action tangs. They have so much drop you need a face shaped like an Army Mule just to see over the barrel. For shooting comfort, I'll take a '74 Sharps,1885 Winchester or Stevens m44 over the Remingontons any day. Last edited by jim62; 12/10/11. To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old jorgeI #5904704 12/10/11
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 19,822 Alaska/Texas A APDDSN0864 Campfire Ranger
APDDSN0864 Campfire Ranger A Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 19,822 Alaska/Texas	Originally Posted by jorgeI ET, where's My Sharps?? Jorge, I asked ET the same question. I believe the upper one in the picture ET posted is mine, he just hasn't shipped it to me yet. Ed "Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old jim62 #5904848 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming Ranch13 Campfire Tracker
Ranch13 Campfire Tracker Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming	Originally Posted by jim62 Originally Posted by Ranch13 One thing to add, the Sharps co. closed it's doors twice during the buffalo hunt.. Really? Other than a slight interruption in shipping rifles during the move from Hartford to Bridgeport in about 1875 Sharps stayed in business during that time.. Well I forgot you know more about it than the Sharps catalogs from the day,when the front page declares new ownership/ management..... Not even you can change the fact that Sharps went under for the last time,in 79/80, Remington kept right on chuggin along..... the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to. www.historicshooting.com

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old Ranch13 #5905084 12/10/11
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978 J jim62 Campfire Tracker
jim62 Campfire Tracker J Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978	Originally Posted by Ranch13 Originally Posted by jim62 Originally Posted by Ranch13 One thing to add, the Sharps co. closed it's doors twice during the buffalo hunt.. Really? Other than a slight interruption in shipping rifles during the move from Hartford to Bridgeport in about 1875 Sharps stayed in business during that time.. Well I forgot you know more about it than the Sharps catalogs from the day,when the front page declares new ownership/ management..... Not even you can change the fact that Sharps went under for the last time,in 79/80, Remington kept right on chuggin along..... Yep, that's is what the catalogs say. They did not say "going out of business" as you implied. The fact that there WERE catalogs every year in the 1870s proves my point. Sharps shipped rifles throughout the buffalo hunt. As to Remington, they went bankrupt soon enough and changed ownership as well.. In 1888, the Remington family had to sell out to the Hartley Brothers of NYC for pennies on the dollar. Doesn't look like the Rolling block helped them very much does it? None of which matters, because the '74 Sharps is twice the single shot rifle any rolling block ever was.. Last edited by jim62; 12/10/11. To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old jim62 #5905137 12/10/11
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,713 Alberta catnthehat Campfire Tracker
catnthehat Campfire Tracker Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,713 Alberta	One thing I really liked about the Sharps rifles i have owned is that they can be torn down so easily. My Highwalls are a PIA to disassemble, but the Sharps can be done int he field! Cat scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old jim62 #5905149 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming Ranch13 Campfire Tracker
Ranch13 Campfire Tracker Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming	As per the inside page of the 1877 Sharps Rifle Co. catalog The original company there upon dissolved and went out of existence This new orginization , under the name of the Sharps Rifle Company,at once began in Bridgeport Conn............... to which they removed in February ,1876, and are now prepared to execute contracts for arms in quantity And that's a hell of a long ways from your beligerent bullshit drivel stating " They did not say "going out of business" as you implied " So now crawl back under your friggin rock. the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to. www.historicshooting.com

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old Ranch13 #5905176 12/10/11
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978 J jim62 Campfire Tracker
jim62 Campfire Tracker J Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,978	Originally Posted by Ranch13 As per the inside page of the 1877 Sharps Rifle Co. catalog The original company there upon dissolved and went out of existence This new orginization , under the name of the Sharps Rifle Company,at once began in Bridgeport Conn............... to which they removed in February ,1876, and are now prepared to execute contracts for arms in quantity And that's a hell of a long ways from your beligerent bullshit drivel stating " They did not say "going out of business" as you implied " So now crawl back under your friggin rock. Dissolving a cooperation and immediately forming another to build the same product does not mean much. No matter what CORPORATE NAME they operated under or owners they had, Sharps was still a going concern all during still the buffalo hunt. Was there ONE year during the 1870s when Sharps did not publish catalogs and ship rifles to dealers? By your logic, Shiloh Sharps went "belly up" in 1990 when the Brian family bought Wolfe Droege out. They did not change the rifle co name, but they sure as hell had new owners. I also bet the parent corporate name changed as well. But none of that was in a catalog, so that really does not count, right? Things must be pretty boring on your little 18 acre "Ranchette" today.. Run out of neighbors pets to shoot? Last edited by jim62; 12/10/11. To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

Re: Buffalo Guns of Old jim62 #5905185 12/10/11
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming Ranch13 Campfire Tracker
Ranch13 Campfire Tracker Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,275 wyoming	Originally Posted by jim62 [ Things must be pretty boring on your little 18acre "Ranchette" today.. Run out of neighbors pets to shoot? What the fugg are you talking about? I've never shot any of the neighbors pets. You talk this igorant to people face to face or do you let the isolation of your keyboard fool you into thinking your something special. the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to. www.historicshooting.com

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