Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Tipi/tarp vs. floored tent

I have Kifaru 8-man for basecamp use.So far I have spent a bit more than two months in it, and really like it. At first I went without a liner but condensation was an issue (that was in Northern Alaska). After I bought the liner condensation is no issue anymore, but surely add some weight.
Having stove is great (where wood is available).
Just recently I bought Go-Lite SL-3 (just flysheet) to be used as shivash shelter and to be carried all the time in my pack for unexpected situations. I notice one thing: you can pitch golite tipis quite high from ground leaving a lot of ventilation from under the walls. That will surely help with condensation together with top vents. I haven't spent any nights in my SL-3 yet but I expect some draft issues there (compared to Kifaru with liner), however this is just my shelter for shorter spike camps.

+1.

Smoke & Luke:

One can improve the ventilation of single-wall tents and thus reduce condensation by pitching them high off the ground so that there�s 6�� 8� of clearance between the bottom of the tent walls and the ground. While this does reduce or eliminate condensation it also reduces the amount of protection from rain, wind, cold and insects. Look at the photos posted above in this thread (the one without the stove). That teepee has been pitched high off the ground. This is fine as long as you don't have rain or snow blowing sideways or vampire insects.

Some reasonable and well informed people will disagree with me and they have every right to their opinion but in my experience single-wall tents without a stove works best only when environmental conditions are so mild that you don�t really need a tent. When conditions are that mild I've used a bivouac bag and a simple tarp pitched with one trecking pole in one corner and the other corners tied or pegged to the ground. Works great, provides about the same amount of shelter as a teepee that has been pitched high above the ground and weighs less.

KC

ray:

Yep. I've also learned that rude lesson. I use to own a poorly deigned dome tent (a Jansport Sierra, no longer on the market). Rain/wind came in sideways and flooded the tent and the bathtub floor prevented the water from escaping. Sleeping bags were soaked. A properly designed dome tent will not allow that to happen.

I've also had the opposite experience in a well designed tent when strong wind and rain blew so hard that the roof of the tent was blown down onto my face (as you say, poor choice of campsite on my part) but the tent held up and there was no leakage.

KC

KC,

I agree sir.

Here is a video I took of a single wall in some pretty mild weather:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNzPkXSoixo

Insects are a none issue with a simple 13 oz nest so that argument goes out the window.

The single wall pitched above did just fine in the 40 mph measured wind above like it was. If it got much more than that I'd batten down the hatches, but then there is still enough breeze to keep the condensation down. I don't depend on my tent to keep me warm. Just dry. My clothing and sleeping bag keep me warm. Driving rain hasn't been an issue from what I have seen either.

Like I said aside from winter camping and mountaineering its hard to justify a double wall tent giving the weight and space you get compared to a single wall.

Luke:

That's a cool video, thanks for sharing. Yep that's one of those situations where the extra comfort of a stove makes up for it's added weight.

KC

I agree with Luke on what a shelter is for mostly... keeping dry... second would be wind protection... besides the modular ability of a tipi in adding a nest, or stove for warmth. The headroom and stretchability factor during long periods of confinement may be the single best positive over a tent.

Kent

KC: Single wall tents/tipis are abpout all I use anymore. I've used them down to zero and in heavy downpours.

I've never, ever gotten "all my stuff wet." I've gotten a few drops of condensation on stuff. I use a down bag most of the time too--if all my stuff got wet from the tent, I couldn't use a down bag.

Or I wouldn't use a single wall tent. Until it starts raining inside I'll stick with the single walls.

Here's one of Henry Shire's latest Tarp/Tents


http://www.tarptent.com/notch.html

Or if that's to short for ya..

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tents/LunarSolo.html

Both easy for old guys to carry!

VA,

I split the middle on this contentious topic. For fall trips in the Rockies, where I will have easy (beetle kill!!!) access to wood, I really like my GL4+ and stove. Heat and space are great things! For most other uses I'm still in the double-wall camp (literally).

One thing to consider is that although you'll read all sorts of stats that make tipi/stove seem lighter, is whether that will really work for you. Will you bring a groundsheet? Do you need a lot more stakes for your tipi? Will you bring a stove, canister or liquid, in addition to the wood stove?

Unless you get really lucky, the tipi/stove option is a big investment. Consider what your style of hunting really fits you. Would you rather car camp with a possibility of a one-night spike? Or will you leave the trailhead for a week at a time? Are you happy living out of a backpack or do you like a few creature comforts? Will you be hunting archery seasons in Sept or rifle seasons in late Oct or even Nov? Let your style drive your tent.

Good luck, no matter what you choose, some other guy will do the opposite and kill a huge bull.

KC
i normally would not reply since i dont have the writing skills to compete, but since you addressed me i feel compelled to answer.

the op is on a fact gathering mission and the more facts the better informed he will be.

maybe 21 or so years ago we pitched camp fairly low [under 8000 ft] and it started to rain. when we rose to hunt in the morning there was several inches of wet snow. for several days it would rain and then snow. by the third day we were using anything that we did not have on our body to soak up the puddles in the brand new double wall tent with a bathtub floor. in desperation i cut a hole in the floor to let out the water. it worked. i have not forgotten that trip. moral? well maybe. nothing is perfect, i would guess, and -or - a time and a place for everything.

I prefer a double-walled, floored tent. I haven't been what I'd call successful with a floorless setup yet.

If the ground is going to be damp to soggy, you might also consider a hammock. I'm still playing around with them and not in a position to give specific advice. (My use is rocky creek bottoms where there's no flat spot to set up a tent.)

Tom

Without a doubt, this is one of the most educational threads I've been on in a good while.

Thanks, fellas.

What I've got at this point (as that may be pertinent) is a Marmot LimeLight 3 that saw duty in CO this year for me and CFVA on the elk hunt, and sees my wife and I through our joint outings. It weighs right at 6.5#, in the bag, with everything.

In addition to that, I've got a Swazi gore-tex bivy/one-man tent that's 3 pounds, 5 oz., and has served me well solo for several trips.

Neither are "perfect", but nothing is. They do well for me for what I use them for.

T_O_M's suggestion of the hammock is a very interesting one. I'm planning a hunt that such a set up with a tarp might just be "it".

Still, the tipi idea, with a stove, has my attention.

Keep the stories and suggestions coming, as they are greatly appreciated and I'm learning.

Merry Christmas!

I've used a Hennessy Hammock for years, I see it as the warm/above freezing alternative to a floorless tipi. If it is warm enough to not need/desire a heated shelter, then it is warm enough for a hammock. A hammock/tarp setup doesn't have a floor either. Hammocks do have a bit of a learning curve and of course, trees must be available.

The Tarptent Moment is the one I've been eying pretty hard. It looks like it'll take a bit of a blow, moreso than the rest of that class of shelter.

TAK (and other fellas);

Any experience in the Camp Lejeune/Fort Bragg type conditions, or eastern shore/outer banks? Yeah...think that. And, for the more inland stuff, anywhere from the 'dacks to the southern Appalachians.

That'll be standard fare, with the occasional (hopefully relatively frequent) jaunts West. But, it's the east coast stuf that'll be standard.

VA, as you can see shelter has many many choices and people have personal opinions on what they like most, no different than rifles, scopes or bullets.

It can be as simple as a 6 dollar 8x10 tarp from Menards. I spent 10 days under this tarp. Not perfect by any means but it was quite fun.