Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 50 yrs old and considering my first handgun

Well guys, I want to hear what you think. I am considering the purchase of a handgun for informal target shooting, plinking, recreational shooting, etc. And maybe whacking a deer someday if he steps out in front of me at an opportune moment.

For me, self defense use is not a consideration. If that need arises, God forbid, I would use the 12 ga loaded with three inch BBB goose shells. If a threat is out of reach of that combination, and is a real life threatening problem, I am proficient and comfortable with several rifles. I am niether with a handgun.

I have never owned a handgun before, unless you count a bolt action Savage Stryker in 17 HMR

But I consider it just a shorter rifle.

I have a cousin who has always been into hand guns.
First a 6 inch Blackhawk in 357.
Then a Taurus ??? (do not remember the model number, but was a Baretta clone) in 9 mm
Then the Glock in 9mm
And an auto in 45 acp, maybe a Llama

And lastly I convinced him to buy an EAA Witness in 38 Super, based on what I had read in the gun rags. He was grateful.

I have shot all of these, though not extensively, maybe a box of shells to three boxes each.

I have also shot a Super Blackhawk 7.5 inch and a Virginia Dragoon (SA also) 12 inch with HOT 44 mags.

This meager experience leads me to believe that I want a 41 magnum as the best compromise between killing power and carpal tunnel syndrome.

But I think that revolvers are inefficient as a good share of the gas leaks between the cylinder and the frame.

A few decent autos are still made in 10mm, I have considered the Witness and the Glock. The Glock 9mm seems to fit my hand well and the sights almost come onto target of their own accord. But I wish they came with a six inch barrel.

While I have fairly large and strong hands, my fingers are a little on the stubby side. I once walked into a store fully intent on buying an Automag III on display. I thought the 30 carbine was the ultimate pistol target and plinking round, GREAT balistics with 110 gr hollowpoints. But when I wrapped my hand around the grips, I could barely reach the trigger with the very tip of my trigger finger. So a Desert Eagle is out of the question. Dam and double dam, Desert eagle in 41 is exactly what I want.

Hornady tells me that the 10mm will push a 180 gr bullet at 1250 fps and the 41 will push a 210 at 1400 fps from a 6 inch S & W 57.

Guess the revolvers are not so inefficient afterall.

Is there any reason for a fellow not to just go down and buy a new Stainless Steel Blackhawk with a 7.5 inch barrel in 41mag?

For my uses, is there any reason to pay more money for a DA?

Who makes a DA in 41 now, other than Dan Wesson? Are they even still around? Does Dan Wesson still make a decent revolver, or has their QC gone down the toilet with frequent changes in ownership?

Could anyone smaller than Brian Pierce hold onto and comfortably fire a Dan Wesson in 414 Super Mag? Are they even made anymore? Where would a fellow find a dealer in Dan Wesson or Wesson Arms around Idaho or Oregon?

To me, the Blackhawk just sounds better and better!

They do!
http://www.glock.com/g17l.htm

I'ld suggest starting out with a good single action 22. Once you've caught on to good pistol craft with it then slide on up to another single action that the caliber starts with the number 4 if you intend to slap a deer around.

Thanks T, but that is a 9mm and that cal has not impressed me, especially if a deer is on the menu. It is a very handsome weapon though. I used the 9 as an example for fit because that is the only Glock I have handled. Would not other models of Glock point and feel in a similar manner? I do not know so am asking.

My catalog shows the mod 20 available in 10 mm with 4.6 inch barrel and the mod 29 with 3.78 inches, definitely not my cup of tea.

Now if they would just add two inches to the twenty!!!

Please define good pistol craft.

As I stated, self defense is not an issue, and neither is combet preparedness, or combat specific target disciplines.

Metallic Sillouette might be interesting though.

Being able to hit the bottom of a pop can with the first shot at say 25 yds, the first shot, and then the next 5. Being able to continue that on out to 50-60 yds and beyond.
Or if you carry that 22 while hunting being able to snap the head off of a blue grouse or squirrel with it, and if you need more than one shot , you've got 2 or more peices of fresh meat for the pot.

I am able to repeatedly hit a three inch bull with a handgun at 20 yds with my cousins weapons.

As for doing so at 50 yds and beyond, I can not do that off hand with my rifles. But I can take a grouse's head off at eighty yds with my deer rifles, and I often shoot ground squirrels up to 300 yds with my big game rifles. I do not do it offhand.

I have seen my cousin knock over several pop cans in a row with his blackhawk in 357 at 100 ydds. incredible shooting!

I have no dilusions that I could ever shoot a handgun nearly that well, if I shot 500 rds a day for the rest of my life.

Hitting a six inch bull at fifty yds will satisfy me, and I may use a rest to do that. That level of accuracy is lethal on any big game I would be interested in shooting with a handgun.

If the game is further than that, I will forgo the handgun and grab the rifle from the saddle scabbard.

Idaho I won't argue with you about how good you can shoot a pistol. Ranch is making a good point however and simply saying that learning the ins and outs of good pistol craft is a lot easier with a 22 than with bigger bores.

Evidently you like autos, that is fine but auto pistols in the bigger bores 40-45 are not touted much as hunting pistols.

You mentioned deer and 357. IMO the 357 mag to deer hunting is about the same as the 223. Can you kill deer with it, sure you can. Is it the best round going, no it isn't.

I am not a pistol deer hunter but have killed some with same.

I do not consider any auto pistol a good hunting pistol. They are harder to master, they do not pack as much oomph (technical term <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) as a comparable round in a revolver and they are even more unwieldy than a revolver with a scope sight should you go that route.

You could not go wrong with the S&W M29 in 44 Mag. Indeed any N frame S&W or the equivelent Tarui in 44 or even 44Special (if you hand load) or something modern in 45 Colt will do well by you.

I am not overly familiar with the 41 but there must be a reason nobody seems to like it much.


BCR

If you have real big meat hooks and like Ruger Blackhawks you might want to try a Bisley. I have bigger than average hands too and the Bisley Blackhawks just feel better to me. Here is a picture of my Accusport in .45Colt. I have a load that pushes a 300 Grain Hornady XTP at 1200 fps, comfortably.



JC

Hello
I am a Tad bit behind you in AGE but share some of your Blessings. My fingers are short and fat, and I find That S&W wheel guns fit them well & HOLD there value in the used market. Now reading your thread it appears that you are looking for not one but three hand guns. My suggestion is start with a K-22 S&W no shooter should be WITHOUT this model and they are the BEST rimefire I have owned in a handgun & Mine is a TACK driver. The next level is a good Target model although the K-22 would cover that fine. I would suggest a nice -N-frame S&W and am partial to the model 27 in .357 which could also be used to hunt Deer like you mention. The Big Dangerous game Wild Boar and such, should be addressed with a super handgun caliber as well, and for that I would Vote for the Model 57 which is a .41 magnum. Like I said once you buy a S&W you will not STOP buying them. It is a habit that I do not regret. See pictures and I am also a Nickel lover as well. Life is too short for ugly Handguns. Have fun, Be safe and KEEP buying those S&W revolvers..Regards, the general.

Idaho, the Glock 10mm DOES have a 6 inch barrel available from Glock. It drops right in with no muss,fuss or bother. I have one for my Mod 20 and it gives the 10mm a real kick in the ass. I have two 41 mags also. A S&W 58 and a Ruger Redhawk 5.5 inch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />Happy with all of them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If deer and target are your primary interests for a handgun, why would you go with a Glock, which has a trigger like a staplegun? Get yourself a nice Colt or Smith/Wesson revolver in any caliber .357 Magnum or above. A nice .44 S&W Special or .45 Colt would be a great choice, I think.

If you are giving your cousin advice why would you ask for ours?
Anyhow based on what you say ( I have had a dealers license for 25 years) I would get myself a good 22, whatever kind you want. I would shoot that every week. Then I would buy a 41 Magnum blackhawk or what ever you want. It is good to have both the same. I like double action because I am a big Bill Jordan fan. (Read, " No Second Place Winnner")
I shoot a Colt Diamondback in 22, I also have a Ruger Government Model 22. If I want to hunt deer I would use my S&W Model 629 44 Magnum. It kicks a lot so I don't shoot it to much. If bad guys were after me I would grab a 45 Colt 1911 Series 70. I don't shoot that much either because the brass is hard to find in the snow. I also like the 357 for an all around gun because you can shoot 38 for practice and magnums for social work. I would get the 22 first and get the deer gun after shooting a few cases of shells.
GWN

Boggy,
I just can not get excited about a 22. I have two 22LR rifles in the closet which have not seen the light of day in nearly ten years. I think it has mostly to do with rainbow like trajectories coupled with very little impact energy.

But a Taurus model 17 in HMR might be worth putting a few rounds through. I will have to consider that.

No, I would not want to shoot mule deer with anything smaller than a max loaded 41 mag either. I know it would hit and recoil just like a slightly downloaded 44. but I am a sucker for underdog cartridges. Witness that I hunt with a 264 mag and sold my 30-06 to buy a 7mmSTW.

You mentioned Taurus, I see that they chamber the 41 in the Tracker and in the Raging Bull. Something more to think about.

I would also intend to shoot the 41 with some mild handloads for a while; perhaps a 170 gr HP over ten gr of Unique. The 210 gr max power loads would come after some experience with the weapon.

Deputy,
As far as I can see, Ruger does not make the Bisley in a 41. Am I mistaken?


General,
I had always considered the Smith overpriced because they were so darned pretty. I have never known anyone who owned one. My crowd always carried Colts and Rugers.

Perhaps Smiths are also reliable, accurate, and durable. Many policemen used to carry them and compete with them. I will have to look at a couple and check prices next time I get into Sportsman's Whse.

Evil Twin,
Tell me more about your 6in barrel. Where does one go to acquire it? Does it come with a shroud or new slide to make it look like an original part of the pistol, or does the last inch and a half of barrel just hang out in the air?

Is it possible to see a photo with the 6 in barrel on the 20.

Hawkeye,
I am interested in comparing the Glock because the one I have shot felt so natural and pointed so well in my hand. It may be necessary to sacrifice that pointability to gain the greater knockdown of the revolver in 41.

Great White North,
"If you are giving your cousin advice why would you ask for ours?"

I only know what is in the catalogs and balistic charts, when it comes to handguns. I am interested in what you guys that have been shooting them have to say. I have already learned a lot from this discussion. And several posters have pointed out something which gave me reason to go to the net or paper references and learn something else.

And that is a good point about making them two of the same. The tracker is available in 17HMR and in 41.

Maybe I can figure out how to manage the cost of two weapons. A rimfire in 17 HMR or 22WMR could be a lot of fun and could be used to introduce my adult children or young grandchildren to handgunning.

Perhaps a Smith 648 in 22WMR and a 657 in 41.
Or a pair of Taurus Trackers in 17 HMR and 41.
Or a single-six in 17 and a blackhawk in 41.
Or the Glock in 10 mm with the six inch barrel.

I still don't know, guess that I will have to go over to Shooter's World and see how many they have of the ones I am interested in. Often you can shoot their used weapons on the range before you buy. We did that with the Witness in 38 Super.

Thanks everybody for the information and advice, and I will enjoy continuing this discussion.

Re: Dan Wesson Revolvers-

Dan Wesson has recently been purchased by C Z.

On the CZ USA web-page: Only 2 Dan Wesson 1911 auto-loader's are currently "shown" or "listed" as for sale.

References (how-ever), are made in their ad as : ..."today producing some of the finest most reliable Revolvers and Semi Automatic Pistols offered by any firearms manufacturer- anywhere." "Sources" close to CZ people say to- ..."stay tuned".

Used D W handguns in excellent condition (even NIB) can sometimes be found at gun shows (one should enquire if the dealer has one- sometimes a dealer does- but is not "displaying it- as the "demand for DW's is not strong.

Also DW's (even the super mags) can be found listed on "GunsAmerica" and in the "classified ad's" of "Shotgun New's" and "Gun List"- (These latter 2 "publication's" also post their listings "on-line".

I have 2 DW: da revolvers in 357 & 44 mag. They are beautiful, dependable, and extremely accurate.

As to auto loaders- take a look at CZ's: "CZ 97 B"- a big bore brother to the famous CZ 75. The 97 B is- all steel, wood grips, forged bbl, tight tolerences, great ergonomics,- and .45 ACP. This handgun would be my 1st choice- (someday) -for my Ist .45----------------

---------------------Weed

Idaho if you think the rainbow trajectory of the 22 is bad , just spend a little more time in the ballistics tables and carefully look at the bigbore handgun rounds. While you're there take note of the fpe figures, I think you'll be amazed to find most of the big bore handgun rounds develope less energy at the muzzle than the lowly 30-30 does at 125 yds.
You're 6 inch groups at 50 yds will do fine for shooting targets, but you'ld best leave the game killing to something you can shoot better.
Hope you're good at following bloodtrails, cuz it sounds to me like you're going to doing alot of it when you whip out your big ol magnum handgun.

Well let's just see about that, The Hornady manual shows that the 41 mag can launch a 210 gr HP-XTP from a six inch revolver at 1400 fps with many different powders.

This bullet has a BC of .182 and velocity of 1258 fps at 50 yds with a retained energy level of 738 ft/lb. And is 2 tenths of an inch high at 25 yds when sighted dead on at 50 yds.

Now let's consider a 30-30 with a common loading of a 150 gr RN bullet at 2200 fps muzzle velocity.

I know many people that have no problem harvesting deer out to 150 yds with that load in their 30-30. At that range the 30-30 has 860 ft/lb of energy, and is still moving at 1608 fps.

It sounds to me that the two rounds are darned similar in performance at the ranges I consider appropriate for their use.

Perhaps you can explain to me how placing a 41 cal bullet at 1250 fps terminal velocity and 730 ft/lb of energy into a six inch circle, centered over a mule deer's heart can fail to be lethal.

About bloodtrails, haven't had a lot of practice. I did follow a blood trail for over two miles on a buck once that I had placed a marginal shot with an 06. It became obvious that he was not wounded severely enough to catch up with and I had to harvest a different buck that day. With that exception, all of my deer have been one shot kills.

As long as a person recognizes his limitations and only takes shots that he is sure of, at the ranges he has become proficient at. There is no reason for hunting with a handgun to have any different success rate.

At any rate, I did not state that I intended to primarily hunt with a revolver. I am a rifle hunter and am quite comfortable with shots from prone or rested positions out to over 400 yds. But I have taken several deer with my rifles at ranges between 15 and 50 yds. If I were to stumble accross a mule deer at this close range, as I have in the past, and I was carrying a 41 mag, and had become comfortable in its usage, I would have no problem killing a deer with it.

Wether you are 50 or 20, the advice still holds, get a good 22 revolver like a smith , get some good private instructions. Learn the basics,and become proficient. Then go out and look for something in a bigger caliber if you want. But for plinking and target, you can't beat a good 22. The next step would be a good .357 with 38 special class loads.

If a longslide Glock 10mm pushing 200 grainers at 1350 fps intersts you, read this thread from the GlockTalk forum.

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=420858

Hey that is exactly what I had considered as my first choice, but did not seem to be available.

At 600 bucks for the new slide, and the cost of a six inch barrel, on top of the purchase of a new model 20.

It just looks like I am going to get a revolver. Unless Glock starts building a 20L, real soon.