Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Anyone shoot a 243 for elk?

Not to start an argument but, I really believe us hunters who are true sportsman should use an adequate caliber to hunt big game. Sure a .243 Winchester will take elk when all things are right. However as the late Bob Hagel said in one of his books, why not have an advantage in rifle power or size when the shot isn't perfect. I can make a quartering shot with my .338 Winchester Magnum, allot easier than you can with a .243 or a .270 Winchester. I can make 5 inch groups at 500 hundred yards with my 338 and 225 grain Nosler Partitions, and it took allot of time and practice to overcome the heavy recoil, but I thought it was the right thing to do. I'm talking about ethics, and humane kills, which help our sport. Off the subject a bit, but to many bow hunters who claim to be archers cripple game every year, where some news paper shows an article where some deer has a arrow sticking out of it's lower jaw, or some other place. The animal has suffered for a long time, and this just adds to the anti hunting sentiment among the anti hunters out there. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, because that is not my intention. The 243 is a great cartridge for beginning hunters, and a expert round for coyotes, but not elk. May I also add, that I think this new sport of long range hunting 700 or a 1000 yards, is unethical, and gives our sport a bad name. Isn't part of hunting, trying to stalk as close as possible to your game ?

I could not agree more, on all points.

John,

I've read some of Hagel's writings and thought how wrong he was about some things based on what some of the most respected writers today have written and what I have seen myself, but then it occurred to me that he developed his opinions about what type of cartridges were needed for western hunting before a lot of the technologies currently in use were readily available or available at all. Some of Hegel's writings stand the test of time, but his "magnumitis" no doubt was influenced by not having suitable rangefinders, resulting in having to have flat-shooting cartridges to make shots at any significant distance (e.g., beyond 250 or so yards). When one is having to guess at distance (and guess at wind speed), one has to use more gun than is necessary for the task to compensate for whatever errors the guesser's guesses on distance and windspeed introduce into the equation, and the people who can judge distance accurately enough for shooting beyond about 300 yards are probably in single digit percentages (with comparable percentages for judging wind). Even though he had Nosler Partitions and a few other "premium" bullets during his time, his opinions also were affected by bullet selection.

So yes, if one hunts the way Bob Hagel did when he was actively writing or the way Elmer Keith did when he was writing, large magnums are probably needed to shoot at distances beyond 250 yards or on "raking" shots. I personally would use a rifle chambered for something larger than .243 for elk if given the choice, and my first choice would be to use something on the order of a .30-caliber standard cartridge for elk, but there are a lot of elk killed every year by people who use smaller cartridges and are careful about shot placement. Like I wrote before, I don't think people using a .243 are going to shoot into the north end of a southbound elk (at least on a first shot), and I don't think I would do so with any gun in my hands, whether .243 or .338+ caliber.

The trend seems to be toward using cartridges that are (maybe) barely adequate for deer and elk. I have rifles that are suitable for the work at hand and I use them. My .375H&H is light and handy. I'd take it on an elk hunt.

Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Since I have developed some shoulder and other neurological issues that prevent me from using heavier guns or guns with higher recoil I have went to a .243 for just about everything.

If the chance to hunt elk were to appear I would just work up a good load with either the 80 grain TTSX, 85 TSX, or 100 grain Partition and happily go get me some wapiti steaks

I understand where Ramblin Razorback is coming from insofar as new technology is concerned, but would argue a bit that the technology has not taken us quite that far yet;and the notion that people are just now getting around to killing elk with smaller calibers is somewhat erroneous....and insofar as Bob Hagel being "wrong"when it comes to elk cartridges.....well the animals have not changed at all;neither have the general conditions under which they are shot.

And "yes"velocity is still important,and so is flat trajectory because the elk are not targets, nor steel gongs that wait patiently while you sort things out with a rangefinder.Not that they aren't very useful,but I think some common sense should apply,because they don't always "work",nor is there always time, and then you are back to the old ways and you better know how to handle it or don't shoot.

So I would think long and hard before tossing anything Hagel had to say out in the trash;as if the current crop of writers have something over him and his advise,which they don't......as he likely had a lot more experience actually killing big bull elk than many gunwriters around today(not all, but many).

Clear back to the antideluvian 80's I recall diggin around elk carcasses to find the spent 100 gr bullets fired into elk for pretty quick, sure kills with the 250 Savage and 257 Roberts to assess damage.A 243 is not going to do anything these two don't do....

I had the same opportunity on elk I shot myself,and many more shot by others.....and the difference between what a 30 cal or 7mm or 338 does to them,and what is done by the smaller cartridges is of 6mm isdistinguishable and substantive in terms of penetration, wound channels, ability to break bone and drive through heavy muscle.A 6mm 100 gr bullet is still a 6mm 100 gr bullet,and regardless of the technology applied,(which does nothing more than effect rate of expansion and depth of penetration)it is only capable of doing"so much";there is no magic imbued by the technology, even today,or at least not as much as many would beleive reading some stuff on here.

And there is a world of difference between sniping a yearling cow that has wondered into a hay meadow in the open;and dealing with a big herd bull across some brush filled Idaho canyon that's steep as a chalet roof where one jump puts him in the jungle,or having to kill him at a tough angle on your side of the same canyon in thick timber.She will be far lighter,in the open,can be shot "just so",and likely won't get out of sight before she falls.The big bull will be far larger, have heavier bone and muscle,and while he can be killed with the 243 there are just better tools for the job,even within the given recoil constraints,say a 260 or 6.5x55.

Here, the OP is looking for a cartridge for his GF;likely a less experienced shooter with recoil considerations and wants to keep her on a cartridge with which she is comfortable and shoots well,so those are the constraints.But that still doesn't make it the best choice, or even a particularly good one,and I'd be inclined to graduate her to at least a 6.5 of some sort,which will kick mildly but throw a bit more flack in the form of more bullet weight. I've put a 14 year old girl on a 270 and had her throwing strikes at 300 yards the first time out....the experience was so much fun for her that she wanted to do it again.

So in my very humble opinion, I'd say load the best,toughly constructed bullet he can get,get the elk in the right position,and everything should be fine.For others without the constraints,I'd say they should listen pretty carefully to what Hagel had to say about elk cartridges.Internet theory and what happens in the hunting fields rarely jive.

I'm with Paul............I own a .243, never shot an elk with one. I with everything he says, except I'd limit myself to 200 yards............just hard to have faith in that tiny bullet/energy on an animal that big. In fact, if she CAN shoot a bigger rifle, and chooses not to, I don't think I'd be in on the trailing and tracking.

260/140 and don't look back...

Although many an elk have unwillingly taken a dirt nap with a 243.

Lots of folks have killed elk cleanly with the .243..

I'd listen to them, not someone in New York who likes to read.

What type of elk hunt is it? Open country late-season cow hunt? Rugged country trophy bull hunt? Depending on the elk being hunted and the conditions, it might sway my decision as to which caliber to pack.

I'm in Boston....love to read....and have killed enough elk and seen enough killed to ignore wisecracks by western residents who think they know everything about.

I would bet I've seen as many elk killed,as you....

I hear from others, you're really a nice guy but I can't tell it from here;cause evrything you post is a negative wisecrack with no substance....

Here is the issue. She ain't gonna hunt with anything but that 243 because its pink. She ain't gonna hunt with anything but that 243 because of recoil.

I would like to think that most of you know that I am not stupid. That I would never allow myself, my clients when I was guiding, or my friends girlfriend to take a bad shot at any distance with a small for game caliber.
In case there is an issue reading the title of this thread is asking for opinions from anyone that uses a 243 for elk. Not asking what some think is ethical or not. I could give a rats azz about that. I wanna know what is realistic for the 243 on elk. Any jackass would know not to take a 400 yard quartering shot on an elk with a 243. Wanna take ethics, most guys with magnum rifles are affraid of the kick and fail to make good shots and think because they have a mag that they can shoot at any distance at any angle and kill anything that walks the earth. Thats unethical.
Its already been stated that 300 yards max is likely but we would feel more comfortable with getting 200 yards or better due to the limited ability of the 243. We have also stated shot placement and angle are gonna be important and considered due to the limited ability of the 243.

This hunt is a late season bull hunt in varied terrain. If this was my hunt I would be using a 7 mag like my buddy will be doing. However this is about his girlfriend that is new to hunting, has an issue with recoil, and would rather stay home than hunt with anything other than her pink rifle.

Now that I am pist I will ask the question again in all caps so that maybe it can be read clearly
DOES ANYONE USE A 243 FOR ELK? IF SO CAN YOU TELL ME WHICH BULLET/LOAD YOU AE USING AND THE MAX DISTANCE YOU FEEL IS REALISTIC?
Is that easier to read?

Kique

BTW my friend and I are both not happy about her taking that 243 on the elk hunt. But her stupid dad said she would be ok using it. So she is stuck on it. Its an issue we didnt want to have to deal with but now have no choice. Makes the hunt harder than it has to be.

good on you Enrique! if you can get the TSX/NPT's to shoot your going to have a dead elk...

I know the 100 grain noslers shoot very well in the rifle, but with all the talk about the TSX's I'm gonna have my buddy pick up a box and see if they shoot better.
My goal is to help both of them have a fun and successful hunt.
Thanks for all the input

Cant argue with that.

.243's for elk....yep, do it if anything to prove to the naysayers it can be done.

Kique---she'll have no issues as long as she does her part, I know you'll do your part in getting her set up and in a position to win (hows that for a sports and guiding mentality).

I have seen the 243 used many times over the last 30 years on elk. Normally with factory CnC ammo. Place it right and things will expired quickly (same as with any other cal).

My 6/06 takes elk quickly and I have taken and know of plenty of elk taken with the Swifto and the 22/250. Talk with Scenar about all the elk he's taken and seen taken with the 22/250.

So yeah, the 243 will do her just fine.

As for range, that would depend on the shot but I'd have no issues bouncing a bull out to 400 if the conditions were right. And I know that it'll do it's thing a lot farther than that. Thinking that Burns has used to 2x or so of that.

Have a great hunt and post pics!

Perro

Perro,

Thanks for the info.
BTW I'd be interested in hearing about that 6/06 sometime. Just the other day I was thinking about round like that.

Its gonna be a fun hunt they are excited and I hope the girl can get it done. you shoulda seen her shooting at Javelina in February. It was fun.

With all the positives I am starting to be more confident about the lil 243. Now we gotta get her shooting more.
Thanks everyone!

Kique

People bashing someones way of hunting is what gives the bad name,
Hunting is what each one of us make of it. If Long range shooting is your game, and you put the time into shooting that way, Then go have fun. I archery hunt and shoot Long range, and find both very exciting to me. IF the 243 is what she can handle, and shoot well, Then by all means get after it, and do not look back, When she is eating backstrap, she can comment on here how the hunt went!!

My late brother in law has killed many elk in his younger years with his model 70 Winchester in the .243 caliber. He was one heck of a tracker and woodsman to say the least. He was also spot on when it came to hitting a target. He used that same rifle to hunt P-dogs and marmot with during the years. He only had 2 rifles period. His .243 model 70 Winchester and the one my sister and I purchased as a Christmas present for him back in 1965. This was a pre-64 model 70 Winchester in the 30-06 caliber gents. The .243 caliber can certainly kill any elk on the planet if you select the proper shot and bullet doing your part.