Home Forums Gear Horses and ATV's Saddles, what do you ride in.

I'am 34x34 and this 15"1/2 is perfect for me, no issues at all.


Most comfortable saddle I rode to date.

If "Gene Ovnicek" was a guess toward Dad's name, nope.

Grover Botkin. He's the stunt guy in Missouri Breaks that rolls out of the outhouse after being shot by Brando. He's the money holder/bet payer in the bare-knuckle fight scenes in Far and Away (slaps Cruse on the back after a fight too). Supplied the Sharps rifle to The Trackers (with Kris Kristoferson). Man behind the rifle shooting sheep in the pen in "Stacking" with Frederic Forrest. I have pairs of moccasins/talisman bags and wedding dresses used in Dances With Wolves that hang inside the teepees.

Dad described his technical advisory jobs as "making sure a gun didn't show in the movie that hadn't been invented yet, and telling Indians to take off their wrist watches".

Robster, you look like you belong in the West.

Tahnka, that's a great story. I think I know who your dad is though I haven't met him. I have been a professional writer for over 40 years (I started quite young) and two of my novels have been optioned for film but neither have gone into production. I have also done a lot of magazine work, often writing about horses like your Tahnka, other times writing about the real-deal cowboys, guys who rode when the ranges were big and horse herds numbered in the thousands. I love stories like you just told and its great that you have the horse.

As to saddle fit, how you ride your stirrups makes a big difference. Because I ride a long stirrup I can ride a narrow seat, like a scant 15" (I am also 34x34). Guys who ride a short stirrup tend to ride a wider seat because the bent leg is pushing them back against the cantle.

The one saddle I mention, the 1934 Sid Special built by Furstnow of Miles City Saddlery was built for my father when he rode for the CBCs, the Chappel Brothers Cannery of New Rockford, Illinois. They probably ran more horses than anyone from 1928 t0 1938. In fact, no one knows how many for sure, but in eastern Montana alone probably 50,000 head carried the CBC brand.

Dad's saddle is an old Heiser. Dad wasn't much for buyin' new, repaired what he had with what he had. The saddle showed it when I inherited it, along with some rot that Dad hadn't dealt with.

I have that old Heiser, put it on a young horse against my better judgement, and she spun off the tie, bucked till it went south, stomped it nearly to death. Just got it back from a girl with her own saddlery local, and she actually found the stamps to replicate the unique basketweave.

You will see the mildew crap we deal with here in Northwettern Oregon. This accumulation from only two weeks out of the shop, saddle in the barn. We flood all our saddles at least twice a year with Neatsfoot, and still have this surface disease.

You can also see the newer leather on the hangstrap for the stirrup. This girl does great work. I have to say I did not pay her enough for repairing what the young horse destroyed, and what Dad overlooked. He also worked as a guide/wrangler in the Bob Marshal Wilderness for 30 years: all with this saddle.

The old Heiser is good to go again. (If you have a crick in your neck, check again later: photobucket rotate doesn't take right away). You Oregon boys got a solution for the penicillin coating? (Oregon on the left, mind you.)

no, Tahnka. I was replying to Mtrancher about the farrier's name he could not dig up.

I was wondering if he was referring to Gene Ovnicek here:




Gene does "Natural Balance" trimming and shoeing. It's very similar to the "wild horse trim" and the "4-point trim", depending on whom is doing the clinic.


eta: Just googled Gene and see he is in Colo. Springs now, so not the same fellow anyway.

So, after connecting a few dots, My current guess is that mtrancher is referring to Merlin Anderson of Cowtown Horseshoeing School.

How's my google-fu, John?

Iron-bender, your google-fu has good mojo. Merlin lives a couple miles down the creek from me. He and a son just bought out an outfitter in the Little Belts on the Lost Fork of the Judith. I'm wintering their pack string and may make trips in with them to do the photography of their hunts and produce keepsake gift books for their better clients.

Thanks Lila, that had to be the most fun I have had in years!!!



Thanks for the tip Saddlesore. That Blue Roan of mine always has a black head, legs, mane and tail. But the body color changes with the seasons. Black in the winter, real light charcol in early spring, almost the color of charcol after it has been burned...almost white, then the blue you see in the pic.



Dan, I have no idea. I am 5'8", 150 lbs. wear a 29X34 jeans for riding, and 29X32 for around town. I just know that there is some room for me to shif my butt around a little, I am not stuck in one position.



Thanks MTrancher. The plan I have is to move somewhere west (Not California) in about 8 years. Would love to live in the Desert Southwest, but keeping my options open. Something about the Northeast makes me want to get out of here fast, but I have to wait for my youngest to get out of High School first.(currently in 5th grade.)

Back to saddles. A problem I see in some Wade knock-offs is they are too flat, sort of like the roper saddles of the 60s. If you watch western movies of that era the tack choices were abysmal. You will see John Wayne and Lee Marvin riding saddles designed for calf ropers and bulldoggers. The Fred Lowry Roper was about as flat as one could get. I like a saddle with a pocket for a seat so you sit in the saddle and not on it. Saddles for various arena disciples are designed solely for those disciplines and one might find them comfortable for the trail or you might not. I'm no expert on trail riding but I'd suggest a saddle with an in-skirt rigging rather than a flat plate rigging. The flat plate will add bulk under your knees. It's there to add strength but you probably won't be roping bulls, so the in-skirt rigging is all you need and can be made plenty strong.
The stirrup leathers should swing freely, especially forward. How the leathers are hung (3/4, 7/8ths) makes a big difference. In my new saddle Charley Snell came up with his own rigging style.
I like a small Cheyenne roll. I just find it comfortable to reach back there and cup the roll in my hands when I am twisting in the saddle to check my back trail.
The type of riding you do and the horses you ride determine your saddle needs more than anything. Full Quarter Horse bars, though not common, will be as ill-fitting on a narrow horse as narrow bars would be on a big, fat, ewe-backed horse.
Buckrolls can be added to the slickforks and will take up a little bit of space if your saddle is slightly oversized.
If you're buying a used saddle never assume that the seller knows what he or she is talking about. There is a reason they are selling it. Don't take their word for the type of tree, size of the seat or anything else. Most people are probably honest but some simply don't know. Plus, people are often selling saddles with broken trees without disclosing this fact. Personally, I would avoid rawhide covered swells and cantles. Rawhide is not easy to work with and a poor job of putting it on shows up in a few years. Plus, for me, I found rawhide to be too slick, especially when wet. And, no matter how good the saddle is and how sweet the deal, if it is too heavy to be swung up on the horse easily, then its probably too heavy. At some point in time you might have a shoulder injury and that saddle suddenly seems to weigh a little less than an anvil. When you try a new or different saddle pay attention to your horse. The horse will try to tell you what it thinks. There's been a confusion in breeding lately concerning "short backs," consequently, some horses have backs too short for some saddles. This confusion has come about by people demanding a "big hip" on horses, and in turn, they think that means a "short back." A shorter back will require a shorter saddle. For whatever those tips are worth, the one I'd pay the most attention to is the choice between the flat plate and in-skirt rigging.

Any knowledge on this saddle.

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/grd/2764454131.html

Good information right there! thanks mtrancher.
I've always liked the looks of the high cantle pencil roll better but when I rode in one it seemed to make me lean forward to much and was harder on my bad back. I like the cheyenne roll now for some the same reasons plus it's easier to throw my leg over. Getter older is stuff folks. The stirrup leather swinging forward is a big deal too with my bad knee.

Yes,I definitely like the in skirt rigging. My saddle is +20 yrs old and shows no wear there.I have removed the flank cincha to get rid of extra weight and found it to be of no use anyhow. It might be required for roping,but not general riding.I could never see why folks rode around with the flank cincha 4" below the belly on a horse.

I sure like to be able to swing my legs forward more and my saddle doesn't offer this.Being a synthetic tree ,the stirrup leathers had to pertty much go where it was molded to and
the tree could not be cut out more in front. That is probaby the only thing I dislike about it.

Like Lila with my bad back,I have to have the short Cheyene roll.I can't even twist around to look back because of rods in my back. I have to turn the mule partially. Makes for leading pack string exciting at times.However now days that is limited to one pack animal.

A fellow I know out in Northen Ca swears by using a flat cutter saddle for trail riding, claiming it to be the most comfortable.Don't know about that,but my wife's barrel saddle will sure sore a person up in the hills quick.

A few years ago,being short of stock,I threw an engish saddle up on top of the packs going in and figured to ride it while there. I about fell out of it every time I hit a hill.

Lila, concerning the Craighslist saddle: I am not familiar with this saddlemaker but there are plenty of good saddlemakers I am not familiar with. It is a 16" seat, so I'm trying to remember if you were one of us 34x34 guys (I'm actually 33x33 but those jeans are hard to find). If so, a 16" saddle might be too big depending on the saddle and your riding style. Also, there is a difference between a 16" tree and a 16" finished seat. In most cases people are describing the tree it was built on not the actual size of the seat in the finished saddle
And, for $4500 you could get one custom made from Charley Snell, Shawn Kramer, or one of a number of saddlemakers and have exactly what you want. Older saddlemakers tend to know the little tricks that help a rider compensate for injuries because they have likely had those same injuries themselves. For example, I have no metal in the groundseat of my Kramer saddle.
In January's issue of Western Horseman is an article on saddlemaker Doug Cox and Cox makes some good points in this piece.
As an aside: On Pat85's mare thread we discussed the sore on this mare's shoulder/withers area and one possibility I didn't mention was the breast collar. Here on the plains it is not uncommon to see guys riding with both the breast collar and back cinch so loose they serve no purpose. The theory is if you need them you can always get off and tighten them. The problem is when you shake down a loop and build-to something to rope it you may not have the time or the memory to do that. In the mountains it isn't uncommon to see breast collars that are too tight. A breast collar that is too tight will gradually pull the saddle forward -- we'll leave out cruppers for now -- and eventually sore the horse's shoulders. Here in Miles City we used to have an old farrier, a man named Red Peterson who mentored Merlin Anderson, and Red was a character. If he saw a horse wearing a tight breast collar he'd unbuckle it and give it a toss. In all but the roughest country, a breast collar is not needed if the saddle fits well. Yes, you need one dragging calves to the fire or doctoring yearlings in the hills, but in too many cases they are on there just for style.
One of the very good things about modern saddles like the Wades is they have the high D-Rings so the breast collar follows the natural "V" of the horse's chest. In many cases the back cinch isn't needed either and is simply the source of weight. Again, here on the plains, the back cinch hanging too loose is really dangerous but I see it all the time. A guy cinches the back billet loose, then the horse gants up, and it's really loose, then should something bad happen and the horse sticks a hind foot through it...you have a wreck that has no happy ending.

I'm 34-32 and I fit in a 15" seat.I road ina 16 seat for years but when I switched,I was amazed at the increase of comfort.

Lila, it's also important in any saddle you get that it has "half-holes" in the stirrup leathers. Most do, but not all. Dropping down a half-hole might alleviate some knee pain.

These mules require a breast collar and a breeching or crouper.
Some folks use what is referred to around here as a Wyoming rigging where two straps attached together with dee and a dee on each of the opposite ends go down around the horn and come out on the bottom of the gullet.Then the breast collar is attached to the two dees. It also keeps the collar in the natural flow of the shoulder, but if worked hard in steep terrain,it can pull the saddle down too tight.

Here, breast collars are pretty much required if one drags a pack string as there is always at least one pack animal that wants to sit back on the lead.

I know most participating in this thread are either ranchers or trail riders and don't ride mules,but my comments might help the occasional packer or mule rider.

My very first saddle was a military saddle with the slit down the center maybe an inch wide.That was one hard piece to sit on but it made it ideal for packing...

Times sure have changed in the saddle department.

Jayco

My pant size is 34x32 5'8 170lbs. I've learned a lot from this thread. One thing for sure is I was, am,riding in a saddle that is to big. 16'' western and 19''trooper.

Some time I would like to talk about breast collars and croupers.
I normally ride with my legs loose,stirrips long. More comfortable for me any way.

That craigslist saddle is way more than I can afford.
Just wondering about the name.

What do you mean,legs lose.Now eight in the stirrups or?
My pants size is the same as yours ,but I am a tad lighter even if all wet.

I'm 5-9 1/2 and weigh 178, and like I said, my Snell saddle is a scant 15. In fact, its close to a finished 14 3/4. My father's old Sid Special is 14" and when he was riding it he was 5-11 and weighed 185. A saddle that is too big will often seem like it is too wide, too, because of where you are sitting. You may not mind this if you're real flexible, but most of us who ride much are not very flexible.