Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting WHY AREN'T THE 6.5s MORE POPULAR ??

Scenarshooter, just out of curiousity, what did you use for barometric pressure?

Back to the original topic:

I think one significant other reason is the "one gun for all hunting" philosophy. When I started deer hunting with a rifle, I chose a .30-06 so I would have the one gun that I would need for all of the hunting I would ever do, including elk and a safari in Africa (if I hunted dangerous game I would have to have one additional specialized rifle, but that was it). For a lot of people, they probably do have just one gun for all medium and large game hunting, and if they have thoughts of ever going to Colorado to hunt elk and maybe even to Africa for a safari, they want the rifle they are buying for deer hunting to be adequate for their distant adventures. There has been a common perception that a person needs a .30-06 or 7mm Mag, or at a minimum a .270 Win or .308 Win, to kill an elk. Thus, the "one gun for all hunting" crowd, even if they may go elk hunting only once in their lives, if at all, are going to gravitate toward those four "elk" cartridges. Fact is, I can say in retrospect from my own experience, they would have more fun with shooting if they would choose a moderate powered 6.5mm or .25-caliber that is suitable for deer and that would also work for that one elk hunt, should they ever go. By the time you talk about the cost of a trip to Africa, one could certainly afford to buy a new .30-06 for around $400 (Weatherby Vanguard or Remington 700 no-frills model or a Savage or a Howa, to name a few available for around $400).

I think outdoors writers could do a better job of educating the average Joe hunter on this issue, but the outdoor writers are somewhat boxed in by the manufacturers not adequately addressing the deer market because their production (and by extension their promotion) is focused on the "one gun for everything" (with the traditional elk cartridges) and the "youth and women" rifle and cartridge (.243 Win). If the manufacturers would figure out that people would enjoy shooting more (and might, probably would, shoot more) if they had modest powered 6.5mm and .25-caliber deer rifles, the manufacturers would be promoting those calibers more. I can tell you, I have no problem burning through a couple boxes of .243 ammo in a range session and not even noticing, but given a choice, I'm usually not going to shoot more than a box per range session with a .30-06 or .270. I just don't enjoy shooting a .30-06 as much as I do a smaller cartridge, and I'm not going to burn as much ammo shooting a .30-06 as I would something in the 6mm to 6.5mm range. There is a chicken-and-egg issue with this in that the manufacturers are going to point to the current demand as justification for their current production decisions, and they would have to take a little bit of a risk to promote/push the 6.5mm and .25-cal deer cartridges when the traditional "elk" cartridges (.270, 7mm Mag, .308, and .30-06) are so firmly entrenched even among people who never hunt anything larger than deer.

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To the other possible reasons:
1. The 6.5x55 was an old military cartridge. It never had an American manufacturer pushing it because it wasn't the creation of an American manufacturer. Also, I'm not aware of any American gunwriter touting the 6.5x55 like some of the other cartridges were touted (e.g., .270 by JOC). Remington dropped the ball on promoting the .260 Rem and totally mismanaged what could have been a wildly popular premier new cartridge for both beginners and experts. I wasn't around when the .264 Win Mag was introduced, but from what I've read it got plenty of promotion at introduction. The .264 Win Mag had other difficulties in gaining traction.

2. All four of the cartridges you listed - .270, .308, 30-06, and 7mm Mag - are either U.S. military cartridges, or a derivative in the case of the .308, (meaning instant acceptance in the sporting ranks) or were heavily promoted by gunwriters (and the manufacturers that developed the round).

3. This is probably the biggest reason for lack of 6.5mm popularity- people aren't familiar with any of the 6.5mm cartridges because they've never shot one and nobody they know has one or has ever shot one. Websites like this one with a bunch of rifle loonies who are looking for optimal performance have done more to promote the 6.5s than probably anything else.

4. The 6.5s lack of popularity doesn't have anything to do with the metric size or being "European" beyond what I wrote under (1) about the 6.5mm.

5. The .30 cals definitely crowd the marketplace. Millions more people hunt just deer than hunt all the larger animals combined (and I'm including black bears as a "larger" animal). There is no reason a .30-cal is needed for deer (and I'm stating this as someone who has used a .30-06 for years for deer). However, the .30-cals (especially .30-06, and .308) are all well-entrenched due to the military heritage of the U.S. .30-cals and people "know" them, know people who use them, and they are readily available.

6. Ammo availability is less of an issue in the internet age, but that is undoubtedly still a factor for some (probably not as significant anymore as the other reasons, though). However, the cheapest ammo found at Walmart and other outlets (Federal blue or red box) often is only stocked in the most common cartridges (.243, .270, .30-30, .30-06, .308, etc.), and some people are going to make their decisions based on a few dollars per box difference in cost. Can't blame them for looking to save money, and I buy that cheapest Federal ammo when it is accurate in guns I own (and it often is), but I think if the demand was higher for the 6.5mm cartridges like the 6.5x55 and .260 Rem that the cheapest ammo would be readily available for one or both cartridges over time. I'm sure in Scandanavia you can readily find 6.5x55 ammo everywhere ammo is sold in the cheapest ammo lines offered. The cheap ammo factor probably is really part of the entrenched competition factor.

If I had to rank the reasons, I would say from most important to least important:
3. Lack of others experience/exposure with the cal.
One gun for everything mentality
2. Entrenched competition, 270,308,06, 7Mag, etc. AND 5. Our 30 cal military history - combined (they are related)
1. Lack of Publicity (probably could be grouped with 3. above)
6. Ammo availability difficulty (which is related to 2. above)

with 4. Rejection of a Euro caliber? not really a factor (not rejection but instead a lack of exposure).

I keep checking back to see when the pix of NNC's will start showin' up.

FC

I wonder if we've missed the obvious on something.

It's rather hard to spend more than 3 months on the fire without seeing at least 2 threads about the lack of knowledge behind your average gun counter. The average person here probably hunts a little harder or is willing to learn a little more than the average guy hunting whatever game - across the board.

That said - the reason most cartridges not named 30/06, 270, etc isn't more popular is because the people with the most contact with the larger hunting populace aren't the most knowledgeable to begin with.

The 6.5 Creedmoor has been out for 5 years and received a TON of press, I've had counter folks tell me they've never heard of it when I've asked if they have one in stock. That's within the last 4 months.

If THEY don't know - how's the shooting public at large supposed to know? To the majority of hunters/shooters - that counter monkey is the expert to be trusted.

29.92, and 59*F

Interesting, I ran the numbers using Berger's program using 25 inches, and got almost identical drift but higher velocities.

Not aimed at Smoke...

I suppose if a guy regularly shoots 1100 yards/meters at Elk,then according to paper numbers, the 264 has an advantage over the 270, but what advantage does it have at common sense ranges that most Elk are taken?

Just how far do you have to take the 264 to make any noticeable difference..It sure is not at reasonable ranges...

1100 yards..Give me a break.

Jayco

I suppose you are just throwing me another softball but I'll take a swing.

1102 yards with a .264 Win Mag.

You got ripped off - all that I see is the head! Pay for an elk tag, guy should get some meat outta the deal...

Ok John, now you have really done it -- a post about a dead elk at 1102 yards.

Scarlett Johanssen and I can hardly wait to see the replies to this one!



John

YEAH !

? Think photo shopped?
Jerry

ps - I couldn't resist.

Now a SERIOUS compliment.

I've enjoyed seeing the 6.5 Creedmore 600 + yds elk hunt/shot very much.

Nice work, hats off to you!

Jerry

I just plugged in some 264 and 7 rem mag numbers at 11,000 elevation. Talk about insane with 140 vlds and 168 vlds. Wow.

Just answering the man's question.....

But as long as you asked, I ran the numbers at 500 yards (100 yd zero), and a barometric pressure of 25 in. Hg.

.264 WM 140 vld @ 3,200 fps = 2044 ft-lbs., 34.5 inches of drop and 9.6 inches drift in a 10 mph crosswind

.270 Win 150 vld @ 2,900 fps = 1631 ft-lbs, 45.3 inches of drop, and 13.2 inches drift in a 10 mph crosswind.


At 600:

.264=1860/55.2/14.2;

,270=1452/72.6/19.5

Well......sure! Like I been saying....you have to go to a magnum capacity hull to really beat a 270.

I was going to say that too. How does the .264 mag compare to the .270WSM, or the .270 Weatherby?

You know I have to say this.

Don't feel too bad. Next time you'll get closer.

And the elk won't be any MORE dead than it is from the distance he shot it from...

Well....not really. My 6.5-06 shoots 140 vlds at 3050, no problem.

6.5-06 140 vld @ 600 yards, 1665 ft-lbs, 62 inches of drop, 15.4 inches of drift in a 10 mph crosswind

.270 150 vld @ 600 yards, 1452 ft-lbs, 72.6 inches of drop, 19.5 inches of drift


My 6.5-06 is Improved, but a straight-up 6.5-06 will go 2950 with the same bullet and still beat the 150 vld in the .270, the differences being the BCs of .313 vs. .272, and the velocity--the 6.5 does it with a lighter, faster bullet.

NOW DOGGONNIT Smokepole, I JUST got my 6.5X55, I DON'T NEED you

flingin a cravin on me for a 6.5-06. Now Stop It.

Jerry