Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 9mm +P

I have a S&W 6906 and S&W 59. Is there anything I should be concerned with if I wanna shoot +P loads outta either one of these models?

Huntinut

The cost? I think any decent 9mm is fine with some occasional +P. The steel Smiths are almost impossible to break, and the aluminum ones are pretty good too.

I have/had a bunch of Smith autos and never wory about +P (or +P+ for that matter) in them, but I don't have enough money to make a habit out of it.

of course you can "get away with it", but as much as i like +p in 9mm, i don't recommend it in most guns--in my opinion, a couple of very notable exceptions are the hk usp, and to a little lesser extent the hk p7.

the p7 is all steel, very strong, and has a cylinder/piston system to lock the slide, some propellent gas is "vented" back into the porthole and chamber area when the pill leaves the spout--in my judgement this all helps--been using it going on almost 25 years--a gas retarded blowback...

the usp was built to handle the pressures generated by the 40 s&w from the beginning, so the 9mm persuasion can stand the gaff. (in my estimation the ruger p95 is robust enough, and the glocks can take somewhat of a lickin too...)

in general, i think it is wise to avoid +p use in aluminum frame rigs--i saw a pilgrim once who shot +p in his taurus 9mm, and when he removed the slide, the top of the frame on both sides above the dust cover looked like someone chewed up the aluminum frame with the jaws of a pliers--and slide movement was so brisk his rear sight took a vacation too...

plastic frames have some flex to help mitigate this--and when they are expressly designed to "take it", like the usp is--there's no happier marriage to be had.

your rigs will work just fine for you with standard pressure loads.

treat those rigs right and they will treat you right--especially when you need them, now...

Like Hi Vel says. I carry +P in my S&W M&P, but drop back to normal 9mm JHP in my 3913.

More info is just what I wanted. These are not something I'd shoot to plink with, yeah cost is a great motivator, but like to keep them loaded for home defense.

Huntinut

...been shooting CorBon 9mm +P 115s out of a 6906 for years and have seen no degrading of accuracy or unusual ware. For what the high performance rounds cost the few boxes a year most people put through a gun isn't go to hurt anything. Just make sure your recoil and main springs are up to speed...

Bob

Slightly different but.... my Wifes 60's vintage Colt Cobra aluminum framed 38 special is definately NOT rated for Plus P, but that is what is in it when she carries it. All practive is done with milld loads. If 6 rounds of plus P ruin the gun, so be it, that will be a cost I will happily pay if she has to draw and fire her weapon.

Run regular 9mm in your guns except to confirm function and for SHTF carry.

The difference in velocity for +P just isn't anything to write home about in 9mm. Best case is an extra 100fps and I just don�t see that making any difference on live targets, but some are convinced it does make a meaningful difference. You�re trading penetration for a tiny bit more expansion; personally I�d rather have the penetration.

I shoot standard pressure 9mm and don't feel that the small velocity gain of +p in this cartridge means enough to worry about.
I concentrate on practice and shot placement.

Ernie

I disagree. I've seen expansion tests where the extra fps made all the difference in the bullet opening up. This was even more dramatically demonstrated in +p+. Perhaps somebody will relate this to pressure figures as I don't have that data at my fingertips. IMO, you want to get a well-constructed hollowpoint up to about 1250 fps minimum. If reloading, this can be done with some powders keeping pressures down to the +p realm, but usually the velocity is considered +p+. That's what I try to do. All practice is done with cheaper bullets at similar velocities though, so as to simulate the recoil you'll be dealing with. My ammo in a gun such as a Kel Tec P9, is pretty brutal.

The caveat here is this was more true fifteen or twenty years ago and bullet construction has advanced considerably. I haven't seen the evidence though, assuring me that you can get away with standard pressure loads producing the ultra-violent expansion needed to make the 9 into a reliable stopper. And IMO, the 9 needs to expand impressively, whereas this is not as true with larger diameter stuff.

It's late and I'm lit but I believe the difference in SAAMI pressure between normal and +P is on the order of 10%. I don't think that is enough to really hurt anything. I'll look it up tomorrow.

Looked it up: 9mm 35,000 psi, 9mm+P 38,500 psi. 10% bump on the nose.

Wow. Sounds like the kind of difference you would get simply shooting on a hot day in the desert.

Now figure the % increase of the velocity and see if you think it's worth it.

Yup. Then if you shoot the +P on a hot day you maybe get 20%. Add in +P+...etc.

IMO hot 9's are da bomb. Even moreso if you shoot them in dainty little guns not designed for them.

I'm packed for a trip and the thumb drive with the SAAMI Standard on it is too hard to get at, but it lists the reference velocities for those loads and I am thinking it was maybe 100 fps, which to me is worth it. I'll check the numbers in a day or two.

Don't know much about the 6906's, but the 59's aren't very tough guns. Saw a number of them have problems with hot surplus ammo back in the 70's. I would not under any circumstance hand load hot for one.
I'm with Kevin on this. The 9mm with a good bullet is plenty. If you have any doubts, test them on large jugs of water and see what you think. Over the years, I've seen lots of handguns, even tough ones, break down from guys that have to have more than they were designed for. If you need more performance, buy a gun chambered for a hotter cartriage. E

+P is about the same pressure as European 9mm or 9mm NATO. Glocks and the like have no problems with it. I use it for carry but don't shoot +P range ammo in it.

Was the ammo +P, +P+, or do you even know? What other guns were shot with it and what happened to them? What were the "problems"? This is the kind of "I was there" internet BS that's so vague it adds nothing of value to the discussion at hand. In reality, the Smith 59XX guns have a reputation as one of the toughest most durable semiautos ever. People dislike them because they're a heavy chunk of forged steel, thoroughly overdesigned for 9mm. My personal experience mirrors that, including shooting some ammo that was probably +P+.



Just because it's plenty enough for you and you're not comfortable with +P has no bearing at all on whether someone else should use it. Maybe water jugs are tougher elsewhere.



What is your basis for implying that 9mm handguns are not designed for +P? Do you even know what manufacturers recommend regarding +P loads (you might be surprised)? So you've seen guns damaged. Do you know it was from +P?



Why? Instead of using the best performing ammo for your gun, buy another gun? Not sure how you managed to fit so much BS and irrelevance into one post, but you deserve an award. And you did it without providing even one tidbit relevant to the discussion at hand.

The difference in the reference velocities between standard and +P for a 115 JHP is 90 fps. To me, that's worthwhile. YMMV.

RufusG - Dispite your opinins, most 9mm's are NOT designed with +P in mind but have been upgraded to accomodate. I HAVE seen 9mm handguns damaged from 9mm +P's. The cracked slides on Beretta's were all due to NATO pressure 9mm which is a pressure standard that came along after the Beretta 92 series were designed and engineered. Some guns shrug it off with no problems at all, some don't fare so well. Regardless, ALL guns will have accelerated wear with +P vs. standard pressure; that's just plain physics. As to whether 90fps means something, I guess you and I disagree on that one. I've never seen the man or beast that 90fps made the difference.