Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#6018270 - 01/08/12 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 32
MK1 Offline
Member
MK1  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 32
I had a 45-90 built up on a British military Martini .303. This was ordnance rework of a 450-577,. The most important features were Nitro proof (.303) and a dovetail insert on the breech face to allow a small diameter firing pin for higher pressure cordite and other smokeless powder loads. The 303 chamber was ok but the bore was near the end of its service life.
A new 0.458 standard profile barrel was fitted and chambered in 45-90.
Following are the three most consistent and effective jacketed loads on large hogs. Modern drawn brass cases,Federal 210 LR primers and IMR 3031.
405gr Remington IMR 3031 67.5gr 2130fps
400gr Speer IMR 3031 67gr 2130fps
350 gr Hornady IMR 3031 69.5gr 2270fps
I had a set of express three leaf sights fitted. I did a reasonable amount of load development so as the above had almost identical point of impact out around 70yds. The above loads gave faultless extraction!
I never got around to shooting cast gas check loads as the barrel was button rifled. I felt the rifling was too shallow for full on gas check loads. Also, on large hogs a single one shot kill or disable is essential when hunting alone. A 44 or 45 hand gun is good insurance but remember you have to be proficient in the draw , getting a kill or major disable with the first. All this must be flawless in execution when you are under pressure.


CMG 300 BP

#6018974 - 01/08/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: MK1]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,495
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle
safariman  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,495
All over the place! missing Af...
Those loads should git 'er done, but are they much faster than what can be done with a 45/70? I kinda thought the 45/90 would be capable of more, as in 458WIN numbers. Have you tried to run it up a little hotter yet? Any thoughts about or plans to? MAybe this is a hot as you care for or need them to be, which is still a thumper of a load.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
#6018993 - 01/08/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: MK1]  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,328
APDDSN0864 Online happy
Campfire Kahuna
APDDSN0864  Online Happy
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,328
Alaska/Texas
Sounds like a fun project!

Do you have any pictures of this beauty?

I am in the process of developing loads for a new (to me) .458WM along the lines of the .45-90 using cast bullets. My rifle is a custom Mauser.
What rate of twist is your new barrel? What is the barrel length?

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell

#6019036 - 01/08/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: APDDSN0864]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 918
Elkmen Offline
Campfire Regular
Elkmen  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 918
MK1
What is the barrel length? I have seen a couple of those in 45-70 but not the longer 90. I have a Ruger #1 in 45-90 and am using 65 grains of 3031 with the 405. Like you no pressure signs, but a fair amount of recoil, I have no need to go higher. I really want to shoot something with it!!!

#6019484 - 01/09/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: safariman]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 32
MK1 Offline
Member
MK1  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 32
safariman,

This rifle was built for a specific purpose as detailed. Adequate for hogs with easy extraction. But one must not forget just plain old informal target practice. A most pleasant pursuit.The listed loads are reasonable for plenty of range practice. A field carry rifle just over 8lb 24inch barrel.
For big game I use 465 or 500gr in a 458 Win Mag , and a 375H&H with 300gr or in a 375Chatfield Taylor 250 or 270gr .
As a younger man I favoured the 416 Rigby but, I grew to dislike the very sharp recoil.

Alpha

#6020504 - 01/09/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: MK1]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,495
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle
safariman  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,495
All over the place! missing Af...
I know what you mean. My 416 rigby with heavy duty handloads (near 416WBY) is quite the beast.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
#6023675 - 01/09/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: safariman]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
crshelton Online content
Campfire Regular
crshelton  Online Content
Campfire Regular

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
Republic of Texas
All:
I bought my Miroku/Winchester 1886 .45-90 with 26" full octagon barrel at 9.5 pounds, with the express intent(pun intended) of hunting with it with both standard and heavy loads.

A couple of friends and I collaborated with our own handloads and had the 300 grain Nosler PP up to 2600 but they exploded at that velocity, so we backed down to 2200 fps which is the upper limit of that bullet's useability on game; it is devasting. That load has also flattened a big leopard with one shot.

We loaded NF and Kodiak 450 grainers up 2000 and 2100 respectively but were not satisfied, so Grizzley Cartridge took the Kodiak on up to 2150 fps. That load knocked down a bull ele with a frontal brain shot but expanded and did not penetrate the brain, so the somewhat slower NF was used to finish it off with a shoot through. The Kodiak load also flattened a running bison in rather spectacular fashion and did shoot through.
Yes, it does recoil but does so without enough barrel lift to obscure the target. If needed, second shots can be taken very rapidly.

[Linked Image]

PS The 1886 also shoots .45-70 factory ammo just fine and with modest recoil.



Last edited by crshelton; 01/09/12.

CRS, NRA Patron Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
#6023840 - 01/09/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: crshelton]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,603
rattler Offline
Campfire Oracle
rattler  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,603
NE Montana
Quote

A couple of friends and I collaborated with our own handloads and had the 300 grain Nosler PP up to 2600 but they exploded at that velocity, so we backed down to 2200 fps which is the upper limit of that bullet's useability on game; it is devasting. That load has also flattened a big leopard with one shot.


1876 and 1886 Winchesters made a bit of a name for themselves in Africa and India for cats with express loads like that...the lighter bullets pushed fast were devastating on thin skinned game like the big cats and lever guns made for a damn quick second shot for the guys that couldnt afford double rifles....IIRC the 1876 in 50-95 loaded with 300 grain bullets was considered real good medicine for tiger....

Last edited by rattler; 01/09/12.

A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
#6023995 - 01/10/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: rattler]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,495
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle
safariman  Offline
Campfire Oracle

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,495
All over the place! missing Af...
crshelton,

Now THAT is what I am talkin about! I always thought that a good, stout 45/90 should be able to produce loads of that performance level. Nicely done. Do you mind sharing a few of your recipes?

Congratulations on taking some of the big five with a lever action rifle. Not many who have been able, or willing, to do such.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
#6034571 - 01/12/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: safariman]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
crshelton Online content
Campfire Regular
crshelton  Online Content
Campfire Regular

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
Republic of Texas
safariman,
Here are pictures of the 450 grain NF FPS and the 450 grain heavy jacket FP FMJ Kodiak bullets used in the .45-90 loads.It is easy to see which bullet leaves the most space in the case for powder.

[Linked Image]

The batch of Kodiaks that went to Africa were custom loaded by Grizzly cartridge with their proprietary powder and techniques, so load details are unavailable.

I will check my load notes on the NF loads and send a PM, but it will be a few days before I get back to where this information is located.


CRS, NRA Patron Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
Bravo

#6043595 - 01/14/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: crshelton]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
crshelton Online content
Campfire Regular
crshelton  Online Content
Campfire Regular

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
Republic of Texas
Safariman,
For our loading project, I donated the new Starline .45-90 brass, the bullets, primers, and the Miroku Winchester 1886 rifle and my frinds did the loading and test firing with Chronograph. They used their H322 powder and settled on 2200 fps with the 300 grain Nosler PP bullets.
They settled on 1950 with the NF 450 grain FPS.
They peaked at 2050 with the 450 grain ABW Kodiak heavy jacket FP FMJ bullets, so this part of the project was picked up by Grizzly cartridge who took it on up to 2150 fps.

I am very pleased with the 450 Kodiak loads by Grizzly and the 300 Nosler work well.

However, I had difficult ejection problems when firing a series of 5 practice shots offhand with the 450 grain NF ammo. I believe the H322 to be the wrong powder for this type load and plan to pull the NF bullets and use some other powders that have done well with heavy loads in big bore straight wall brass. For this reason, I do not recommend the H322 for this application and therefore will not provide any more detail on those loads.
If and when the other powder performs as expected, I should get a little more velocity at less pressure and will then gladly share the data.

Last edited by crshelton; 01/14/12.

CRS, NRA Patron Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
#6052985 - 01/16/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: crshelton]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
crshelton Online content
Campfire Regular
crshelton  Online Content
Campfire Regular

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
Republic of Texas
.45-90 fans;

Check the Jan-Feb 2012 issue of Texas Sporting Journal for the cover story by David Sefton about how he had to use his .45-90 Sharps to kill a rogue bull elephant after three .458 Win Mag bullets had failed to penetrate!
I could tell you more, but then you would not enjoy the story of the hunt so much. smile


CRS, NRA Patron Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
#6055638 - 01/17/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: crshelton]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
crshelton Online content
Campfire Regular
crshelton  Online Content
Campfire Regular

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 260
Republic of Texas
Here is a link to the text of the story. Even without the many pictures, it makes for some interesting reading.

http://www.africanhuntinggazette.co...mp;view=article&id=158&Itemid=25


CRS, NRA Patron Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
#6056324 - 01/17/12 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: crshelton]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,737
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
BrentD  Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,737
MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
.458 winmag solid won't penetrate and kill an elephant? BS.

I'm a big fan of all things .45 Sharps but I gotta call BS on that one.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by BrentD; 01/17/12. Reason: needed a flag

Save an elk, shoot a cow.
#11183363 - 05/13/16 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: MK1]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 19
frhunter13 Offline
Member
frhunter13  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 19
I am thinking a modern 45/90 Clark CZ double would do better than my SB2 Handi Rifle in 45/70 that will put a 300g Barnes at 2495 fps. with 57 g RE7 .01 off the lands. Any confirmation of this or a pressure rating of the CZ double would be appreciated because I am thinking of buying one for several thousand.

Last edited by frhunter13; 05/13/16.
#11183679 - 05/13/16 Re: 45-90 SMOKELESS LOADS FOR STRONG ACTIONS [Re: MK1]  
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,759
Bugger Offline
Campfire Guide
Bugger  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,759
South Dakota
interesting topic. Have a 1885 in 45-90 and a 1886 in 45-70. Thanks

They both are Jap built. The 1885 has black powder written on the side, which I wish wasn't there even though that's the loads I've been using in it. I'd very much like to use IMR3031 and a 500 grain cast load for bison.

The 1886 has a heavy octagon barrel. It has 1 of 500 stamped on it. ( I give a rat's butt about collectors rifles). I'm tempted to rechamber to 45-90.

Last edited by Bugger; 05/13/16.

Life member NRA
One who puts on armor should not brag like one who takes it off.

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

AIH 160 1
Who's Online Now
496 registered members (17_wizzer, 13_Bones, 007FJ, 1234, 175rltw, 68 invisible), 1,336 guests, and 489 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod









Copyright © 2000-2018 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.068s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9939 MB (Peak: 1.2481 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-11-17 19:04:04 UTC