Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What's Wrong with Belts?

There is nothing either good or bad about belts. They were put on several British cartridges (i.e., 300 H&H and 375H&H) to control headspace in the era that the British used Cordite powder and long sloping shoulders that made headspace control difficult. With modern sharp shoulder cartridges, they are not really needed, but look cool.

Absolutely nothing wrong is my experience with belted cartridges and handloading them over a period (so far) of 30+ years.

In the 60's and 70's if it didn't have a belt it wasn't cool and you didn't have a magnum. The 270 Win the first belt less magnum

Yup.

I had a Tom Burgess Mauser that fed 300 Win Mag cases the same way....first couple of times rapid fire I swore the bolt failed to strip the second round....shoulda known better.

I think Mr Charles Newton and John Rigby might beg to differ with you on that assertion.

It was JOC who is credited for saying & I read it either in one of his books OR a mag article...

..."The 270 Win, Every Man's Beltless Magnum."

Jerry

Just what I was thinking of posting when I read the title and opened the thread

Obviously nothing.

Plus one.

I have seen this be an issue....

That's correct. I can't remember the year I got my first 7 RM but it was in the early 80s. I have and have had several belted mags.

I THANK some GUN WRITER, don't remember who, for teaching us to size off/on the shoulder INSTEAD of the belt. Consequently I've never had any problem with the belted mags.

My 30 + yr memory is rusty. I would think it was prolly JRS but I'm not sure. WHOEVER he was, he helped US greatly.

Secondly, I LIKE the looks of the belted mags. That's probably due to my age. From 2012 back to 1980 makes them classic TO ME.

I don't have anything against the Short Mags, beltless or not. I've been set up for reloading the belteds a LONG TIME and to change I would have to SPEND more money.
Jerry

Bingo.

Conversations about belts vs non belts are ....."much ado about nothing"..... Some English guy said that....

Jeff I would like to know in what rifle and caliber you've seen that problem.
Jerry

what's wrong with belts? 'cause Lee24 said so.........

I�m always very interested in discussions concerning issues with hand loading Belted Cartridges. I read everything I can find on it because I�m not yet at the point where I thinks I knows it all.

In my own experience, I find that FLs for belted rnds, often have very short shoulders, at least in 7mm Rem. Mag. But they stretch without problems, to fill the chamber, at least ONCE.

Also, at least some of the early chambers for Belted rounds, had oversize chambers, which could increase the potential for overstretching the case on firing.

In hand loading, that issue, of course, can USUALLY be overcome by the way you use a sizing die.

I say, �usually� because, I have in my possession a 300 Win Mag. Case fired in a friend�s rifle, a Post 64 Win. New Model 70. (That�s what they called them back then.) manufactured in (1964)

A 300 Win Mag. neck is spose to be .264, and the neck on this (Fired Case) is more like .211, .053 SHORTER, and the shoulder is Noticeably LONGER than another fired case from another, but UNKNOWN rifle.

The above measurements were taken with a Caliper, the best I can tell.

I can�t say, this case couldn�t be reloaded in that rifle, but I sure wouldn�t wanna try it. The 300 Win Mag. has a very short neck anyway.

I expect, it would be very unusual to encounter a chamber this large for a Belted chamber, but I HAVE HEARD of a similar situation with a .264 Win, Model 70 rifle, which IIRC, was a Pre-64 Mdl 70.

I have a SLIGHTLY, oversize chamber in my Rem. 700, 7mm Rem Mag, also of early manufacture, and using a Neck Sizing die works better than a FL die.

From what I�ve learned, and heard, I�ve concluded that there DO, exist out there, some issues in Hand loading Belted Cartridges, and they are mostly due to oversize chambers, and possibly, sizing dies.

That said, I LIKE Belted cases, because of the positive head spacing, just like using a Rim,and they aren't Short and Fat.

I wouldn�t, and haven�t/don�t reject a rifle cartridge that I like just cause it hadda belt.

Thanks for your indulgence.

Smitty of the North

I like belts myself. They help me keep my pants up so I'm not mistaken for one of the bro's......doh!!!

I treat cases from my magnum rifles as if they had no belt and size them to BARELY get a "touch fit" when chambered.

The old .300 H&H doesn't have much of a shoulder to begin with and the belt may make sense. Belted ctgs will work in a double gun a lot better than rimless. Once a belted case is fired and reloaded, headspace should be on the shoulder like any other case.

Sometimes it's hard to fully size a belted case down to the belt, resulting in tight bolt closing. Larry Willis (Innovative Technologies) makes a collet body sizer that sizes down to the belt. Makes the trip through the FL sizer a lot easier, allowing more precise control of shoulder set back. Larry also makes a tool to measure shoulder set back using a fired case as a reference.

DF

I read somewhere that Roy Weatherby came up with his cartridges based on a belted format for marketing. He said the belt served no real purpose but it was good for sales. I think it was in one of the Speer reloading manuals. I wouldn't choose a cartridge based on if it had a belt or didn't. If feeding was the issue, I don't know any autos or machine guns that fire belted cartridges. I think they might if having one mattered.

I also remember when they were coming up with the .300WSM, it was talked about because here's a magnum without a belt. I've got a .300 Win Mag and a .300 WSM. Both shoot equally well and I don't think the belt really matters much.

Belted magnum rounds are notorious for developing a bulge or swelling just forward of the belt. Normal sizing dies will not remove the bulge and one manufacturer developed a die that involved slipping a collet over the case and then sizing it. Beltless cases don't have this problem. In most instances belts are a solutuion to a problem that does not exist.

Kind of like an appendix, useless but rarely causes a problem.

Nothing wrong with belts.Check this out!!!
http://youtu.be/7h0s_62jXuk