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Originally Posted by Mauser_Hunter
Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
Definitely for me, it is the .30-06, with the .270 coming in second, only by a whisker. One is like eating plain grits, the other like a plain bowl of cream of wheat.



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Damn right i'm a Yankee.

Grits blow chunks.


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Here's an example. When I read the history of the Spanish American War I became infatuated with the 7mm Mauser the Spanish used to great effect over the Americans who were using the 45-70 Trapdoor and the 30-40 Krag.

Quote
The effectiveness of these new 7mm rifles were soon felt by the U.S. in the Spanish-American War of 1898. Theodore Roosevelt reported on the difficulties of locating the Spanish at Las Guasimas commenting "...as we advanced we were, of course, exposed,...But they themselves were entirely invisible. The jungle covered everything, and not the faintest trace of smoke was to be seen in any direction to indicate from whence the bullets came." The effects of the superior Spanish weapons were again felt at San Juan Hill and El Caney. This experience led to the U.S. development of the 1903 Springfield after being bested on the field of battle by the Model 93.

The Mauser 93 was the basis for the development of the American rifle Springfield M1903, and it was intended to be used by �first line� or regular troops.

It�s surprising how many of our most useful and reliable cartridges started life in the military. Some that quickly come to mind are the .45 Colt, .45 ACP, .308 Win., .223 Rem., and the glorious .30-�06 Sprg. And right in among those, I also have to add another great performer, the 7x57 mm Mauser. The 7x57 mm, although less popular in this country, is an excellent performer featuring good accuracy and moderate recoil.

The cartridge was originally designed by Mauser of Germany in 1892. It is also often referred to as the 7 mm Mauser cartridge, and in the U.K. it is commonly called the .275 Rigby. By whatever name one wants to use, the cartridge originally featured a 175-grain bullet of modern design over enough smokeless powder to drive it to slightly more than 2,300 f.p.s. In the last years of the 19th century, the accuracy and the power of this new Mauser cartridge were widely acknowledged.

The Spanish adopted the Mauser Model 1893 rifle, chambered for the 7x57 mm, for its military. And it was this combination they used against U.S. troops in Cuba during the Spanish-American War. American troops were so impressed with this rifle/cartridge combination that Theodore Roosevelt challenged U.S. military rifle designers to use it as a basis for a new U.S. fighting rifle. Legend has it the Springfield rifle and the .30-�06 Sprg. cartridge were direct results of our study of the 7x57 mm cartridge and the �93 Mauser. So influential were the rifle and cartridge that the U.S. government was forced to pay royalties to Mauser for quite some time. In retrospect, it looks like that was a pretty good trade-off.

Even closer to home, the 7x57 mm cartridge played a huge role in the Mexican Revolution (1911-1920). Mexican federal troops, taking the lead from their Spanish allies, were armed with Mauser rifles chambered for the battle-proven 7x57 mm.

When Francisco Madero gathered the Mexican rebels to his banner, along with Emiliano Zapata, from the state of Morelos, and Francisco Villa, from the state of Chihuahua, the arms available to them were obsolete. Some rebels arrived with Winchester and Marlin lever-actions chambered for blackpowder pistol cartridges. Others showed up with equally antiquated single-shots, like the Remington Rolling Block and the old Sharps buffalo guns. A few had just sixguns, and a number were armed only with machetes.

The rebels� idea was to get into a fight with federal soldiers as quickly as possible and then liberate the Mauser 7x57 mm rifles. As soon as the federal troops could be overcome, the first order of business was to collect all of the rifles and distribute them among those who were fighting for Mexican freedom. Gen. Villa once attacked a train filled with federal soldiers. After the battle, he handed out the liberated Mauser rifles and ammunition to his own troops then ordered the uniforms to be stripped from the dead enemies. He sent the empty uniforms back to the federal lines with this message: �Here are the husks [reusable covers for tamales], send me some more tamales!� And you can bet he hoped that the replacements were carrying more Mauser rifles.

As with other good military cartridges, the 7x57 mm was soon adopted by sportsmen. Rigby, the British firearms company, bought Mauser actions and used them as the basis for hunting rifles that were used the world over. As a marketing ploy, Rigby began to call the new cartridge the .275 Rigby. One of its best customers was a fellow that went by the name of W.D.M.�Karamojo� Bell....


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I know what you mean about boring. It seems since I started reloading a few years ago that if I can buy ammo easily at a store in the boonies for it I'm not interested in it. I'm not into forming brass or anything, so I'm not over the top into exotic stuff. Right now my favorite is my 260. 30-06, 308, 270, 243 are not my cup of tea. They obviously work just fine, but something about "different" really interests me in a cartridge, it's nice to have something to talk to other people at the range about.


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Originally Posted by Mauser_Hunter
Originally Posted by Jwood1284
I don't understand the whole "boring" aspect of a cartridge. Maybe it's just because I'm relatively new around here and am not a seasoned rifle looney, but there is nothing boring about dropping a nice buck DRT no matter what you shoot it with! Though, I've never been one to get excited over FPS and BC.


I think what they mean is they are so easy to get accurate it takes no work. I guess some think that's boring. I don't get bored that easily.


Ah, I wasn't looking at the topic from a load development standpoint. I can definitely see how a proven, tried and true cartridge would be boring to develop. For those of us who simply shoot core-lokts down tubes and bring home meat like our grandfathers did, no cartridge is boring.


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I think of it this way. What cartridges are the rifles chambered in that you know kill game as good as the others, but they sit in the safe while the others get trigger time.

For me it's the 270, the 30-06, and the 243.


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06,270,30/30,6.5 Rem mag,and the pizz ant 17's


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Originally Posted by Jwood1284
Originally Posted by Mauser_Hunter
Originally Posted by Jwood1284
I don't understand the whole "boring" aspect of a cartridge. Maybe it's just because I'm relatively new around here and am not a seasoned rifle looney, but there is nothing boring about dropping a nice buck DRT no matter what you shoot it with! Though, I've never been one to get excited over FPS and BC.


I think what they mean is they are so easy to get accurate it takes no work. I guess some think that's boring. I don't get bored that easily.


Ah, I wasn't looking at the topic from a load development standpoint. I can definitely see how a proven, tried and true cartridge would be boring to develop. For those of us who simply shoot core-lokts down tubes and bring home meat like our grandfathers did, no cartridge is boring.


The post above yours kind of explains what I meant. Those who reload and spend a lot of time at a range want something interesting to talk about.

Guys like us who are more into just the hunting and just want a reliable cartridge that gets the job done. Don't get bored with what we're shooting. Personally, I hate going to a range. I get my gun sighted in, and i'm gone. I'd rather be up in the mountains scouting.


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If they don't sell ammo for it in almost any store that sells ammo, it's boring. The only 7mm I'd consider is the 7X57 and I wouldn't own any of the 6.5s.


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Discssion over. Swampy has spoken.


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If the ammo can't be found in every store that sells ammo. It probably means you have to reload it, which I find extremely boring.


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I like to reload ok. I'd rather shoot.


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Originally Posted by Swampman1
I like to reload ok. I'd rather shoot.


I gave my opinion. It had nothing to do with what you like.

I love to shoot, scout, fly fish etc. Sitting at a bench and doing repetitive things puts me to sleep. I gave up tying flies for the same reason.


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I thrieve on old and boring! 375H&H, 30-06, 270, 30-30, 45-70, 45acp, 357 or 44mg yup those are my favorites!

The only mainstream cartridge I really don't like is the 7mm mag. No good reason not to like it other than so many of the "gotta have the latest gizmo" "buckmark on the back of their truck window" and so on type guys seem to carry the 7mm mag more than anything else. Its a heck of a cartridge, just not my style.

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Originally Posted by Swampman1
If they don't sell ammo for it in almost any store that sells ammo, it's boring. The only 7mm I'd consider is the 7X57 and I wouldn't own any of the 6.5s.


If they sell ammo for it at every store I'll likely find it boring.
Heck, I don't shoot factory ammo anyway other than to establish a baseline.

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Originally Posted by Swampman1
If they don't sell ammo for it in almost any store that sells ammo, it's boring. The only 7mm I'd consider is the 7X57 and I wouldn't own any of the 6.5s.


I too like the 7x57 because of it's foreign military back ground. So too, the 6.5x55 Swede. Their use in Africa, back in the day, adds mystique to the equation as well.


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Proven, "classic" cartridges, interest me. If it's a WSM/Pizzum/Who Dat, probably not. So am full up on 22LR, 6.5x55, 7x57, 300SAV, and .30-06 right now.

Have more of a hangup with historically lever-action or semi-auto cartridges put in bolt actions or Encores/etc. Not saying no one should, and if a shorter bolt action excites you, so be it. Just strikes me as a chicken with teets.

Might break down for a CZ 527 M1 American .223 someday, though.


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So what is the trick to getting Safariman and BobinNH interested in an 8mm bullet? I am curious to know the boiler room they will choose... that 200 grain partition is really cool... ditto the 200 and 220 grain A-frames... wink

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Originally Posted by Mauser_Hunter
If the ammo can't be found in every store that sells ammo. It probably means you have to reload it, which I find extremely boring.
I'm on the same page with you there. The critters I hunt aren't going to know or care what I killed them with and sure aren't going to be more impressed because I loaded the cartridges myself rather than buying them at Wally world. I like to hunt and shoot but find loading ammo about as entertaining as watching paint dry.

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Originally Posted by Dogger
So what is the trick to getting Safariman and BobinNH interested in an 8mm bullet? I am curious to know the boiler room they will choose... that 200 grain partition is really cool... ditto the 200 and 220 grain A-frames... wink


Make it go 4,000 fps and I am all over it... smile

Actually, I always thought of the 8mm/06 in a slightly sporterized M-98 as being a pretty cool poor mans 338WinMag.

I guess, for me, I like the bullet selection and larger diameter of the 338 a little mo betta. That, and I now have a lot of history and bloodletting with my 340Tyrannosaur wldcat.

I really think that Remington screwed up with thier puny loadings for the 8mm RemMag and Craig Boddington who is a fan of the round agrees. Don't know what they were thinking or smoking, but they really emasculated it. And, they had 7828 to play with which really sings in my 8mm RemMAg necked up slightly to 338! Sigh.... it could have and should have been so much more, and vastly more popular if loaded to its full potential form the guys in green.

Last edited by safariman; 02/01/12. Reason: added 8mm RemMAg comments

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