Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Remington 700 vs Winchester model 70

As the extractors are the same on all their rifles, i 'spose that is to be expected. My comment was probably more regarding some folks dissapointing experiences with feed and barrels on base models in more recent times.

I really think for most folks the small possibility of an extractor failing is a complete irrelevance. But to be completely honest, to us loonies it can be a big deal! And when the differences between rifle's performance in the field is so small, these are the things that start to matter. I care more about a 1:1000 chance that my extractor might fail than the ballistic difference between a 308 and a 30-06 - in practice i think it is more significant. But to my mind, the extractor issue is balanced by the lighter weight of the Remington.

American? It came from the Mauser.

What Mauser sports a SIDE swing three position safety?

He could be out and about, shooting dinks out of his golf cart...

DF

Ok, the position is a bit different.

I'd go with the new M-70. I would purge it of MIM parts, which would include the trigger, not sure about the current extractor. At one time, replacing the factory extractor with a forged steel, aftermarket part was the way to go. I'd pillar bed, glass and free float mine, then take it to the range.

IMHO,

DF

Actually, what I was referring to was a number of guns where the extractor was either installed incorrectly, or the wrong extractor was installed, leading to very tight chambering, if possible, of a fresh round, not a failure due to work-hardening of the metal.

Can't buy new nowadays... but I'd take a Model 30S over a Model 700...

I think by a quick look at rifles you are likely to see at any precision shooting competition, you can take it as fact. But, yep, i would agree that it would be unrealitic to expect to pick a new M700 out of a box and expect it to outshoot a M70. And of course, the M70 is also used as a law enforcement and military sniper rifle - which i don't think has much to do with anything!

To my mind the differences boil down to this. The Winchester is heavier, because it has a flat bottomed reciever. IMHO, all good mauser actions have a lot of metal about the lower part of the reciever. It is necessitated by the full-length claw extractor and big ejection port. Not a good thing or a bad thing - it is just the way it is with mausers. The Winchester seems right to me if you want a mauser action.

The virtues of the Remington lie in its ability to provide a high degree of accuracy in a lightweight platform - the Remington M700 action remains simultaneously of the most accurate and lightest actions on the market. And this is because it is a cylindrical action - which means both less metal in the reciever, and also greater symmetry and ease of accurising.

I would get a Remington if i wanted a really lightweight platform for a mountain rifle, for which accuracy demands a pretty high. I would get the M70 if i wanted reliability. Probably like most folks here though, i have come to the conclusion that reliability is in practice the most significant difference between differing rifle models these days - because just about any new factory rifle will shoot plenty accurate enough that any extensive tuning will produce improvements that are just not significant in a hunting rifle. So i 'spose i am more of a Winchester guy.

I don't buy new, either. I wouldn't turn down a 60's or 70's vintage 700 or a good condition model 30, if the deal was right. Pre-64 M-70's always interest me.

Just trying to answer the OP within the parameters he set...

Df

dhg, I agree with you. The m 700 action is used for competition far more. The M700 is like a Chevy pickup or a M 1911, there's more after market parts available than any thing else in their league. My gunsmith told me it's easier to bed a round bottom action for accuracy than a flat one and it costs less to set up a M 700 action.

Going off on a tangent, on the safety issue i have always assumed that the M70 swing safety was probably derived from modififactions made to mauser 98s and then applied to the M70 design. I assumed that custom makers making swing safety modifications to mauser 98s came before the M70 design. Does anyone know which came first - customised mausers with horizontal swing safeties, or the M70 safety design?

I think it was the M70 first....thre may have been some Tilden conversions of M70 pre-war safeties, whcih is very similar to the M70 design.

Cant go wrong with either and I own both. The 700 with it lighter action and heavier barrel balances better than a model 70 IMO. The ejector on the 700 has been problematic for me at times, but otherwise my 700's have been bullet proof. I have never had any function issues with a model 70 once they are set up. When I say setup what I mean is I replace the factory extractor with a williams, and drop a STW follower in the stock box after removing the spacer. This works on both standard rounds like the 270 and magnums like the 300 win mag, 7mm rem mag, etc. The 700 have been slightly more accurate on for me, but I never had a 70 that wouldnt shoot with handloads it liked.

I have owned at least 40 brand new Remington model 700's over the years and been around at least a 100 more owned by friends and shooting club guy's and I have never witnessed a malfunction of any kind, these major extractor issues I am reading about have never happened in My presence and I have not experienced any QC issues on any of My new 700 rifles, this may be because I tend to buy the higher end 700's not the SPS models or Wal-Mart rifles, I buy mostly CDL and XCR/XCR II models. I have owned a dozen or so model 70's but never one of the new FN Models, I do think they are a quality rifle, I just can't seem to warm back up to Winchester rifles after I witnessed so many dog's that came out of the New Haven plant during the last few years of production. I do think these QC issues have been addressed in South Carolina though and might someday take the Winchester plunge again, I am also like many others and don't really care for the three position swing safety or the looks of the model 70 claw extractor action but these are personal dislikes that the next man might love. I can say that My 700's have been a bit more accurate on average than My model 70's were in fact a few of those model 70's demonstrated horrible scatter-gun accuracy and were nightmares in the accuracy department...............Hb

I am like many here that have posted in that I own both a M-700 and a M-70. I also like both of them, but I favor my Winchester M-70 clasic Super Grade. I like the 3 - position safety of the Winchester better and like the Mauser claw extractor also. Ido not feel under-armed with the Remington at all, but the Winchester has features that are more desireable to be. Kinda like the differnce between a Chevrolet and a Cadillac comparing the M-700 to the M-70. Either one will get the job done with comparable reliability. The Cadillac (M-70) just seems to have more desireable features. Having said that, I own 2 Winchester rifles, 1 Winchester shotgun, 3 Remington rifles, and 2 Remington shotguns.

It's too bad that many folks base their evaluation of the M70 on the New Haven rifles produced after 1964,and especially some of the Classics. If that's all a guy has been exposed to,it's understandable that he may think quality was all over the map.The pre 64's might have declined cosmetically,but never reached a point where they would not shoot and function.

I have run into the same things myself with the Classics and some of them were/are fine and accurate rifles,but others were real dogs. I have had a few of each kind.If you gave them the right TLC and tweaking, they turned into a great rifle.

In my brief experiences with 5 SC rifles there was not much to fault;they all functioned and shot great.

I like the 3 position safety,trigger,CRF,and easy bolt disassembly and other M70 design features of the M70 vs the Rem 700, but this is my own preference thing.

I don't go ape over either one made today, but stick a really nice pre 64 M70 or Mauser under my nose and my attitude changes.

I own more M700's than any other type. Having said that my last centerfire rifle purchase was a M70 Super Grade. Fit and finish and especially blueing seemed far better than on any of the recent Remingtons. Of course, I stumbled onto a really well priced gun which had a lot to do with it.

Only have fired enough shots so far to get on paper but it looks as though it has potential.

Jim

I think Kimber beats them both right now.

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I just looked @ a Kimber last week.Nice rifle,but i'm not to hung up on the light wieght thing.My 700 in 243 wieghs 8 1/2 lbs.and it doesn't bother me to carry it.

What he said..