Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Global warming freezing trees.

But global warming will lead to the next ice age. The ice caps will melt reducing the salinity of the oceans and reducing the effect of the oceans currents causing the average temps to fall because of the reduced effect of the warm coastal waters blah blah blah. No offense but I read that book too. The truth is statistics lie and liars use statistics and by he time this all happens we will all have perished wondering what if. No one really knows and the polar bears will be laughing at us as the are eating tuna off the coast off Florida and doing just fine because their white coat keeps them cool as it reflects the sunlight.
I whole heartedly believe we do need to reduce our carbon foot print because it just makes sense not to chit in your own bed. I also believe we are not the biggest offenders either. I think this country and it's neighbors are a lot cleaner than it was in the seventies and it's getting better. Much like eating healthier it is a life style change and it has become taboo to be dirty and a polluter. Things are getting better and much like we are seeing the results of years of abuse now we will see the benefits of today's changes in years to come.

I just don't think the sky is falling just yet.

True. And if the sky is falling, there isn't a thing to we can do about it.

There are a whole lot of Chinee and Indian's out there, coming up in the economic wolrd, with no environmental restrictions at all, comparitively speakining.

China is building coal-fired power plants, with few or no pollution controls, at one every 10 days, or so I read somewhere.

Maybe we should nuke them in the interest of environmental policy? (Just kidding, in a black sort of way).

Actually, according to one report I read, every previous ice age was presaged by a short, sharp spike in global temperature.

Maybe everyone is right?

All of you are right, maybe.
Notropis, you are right when you say there is no simple answer. I was just stating the facts that there are a lot more gasses in our atmoshpere because of human activity and the physical changes inof light that cause it to act the way it does.

In the big picture, the earth is currently at teh apex of a warming trend and looking at a cooling in temperatures in the future. But as far as the human time frame is concerned, IMO, we are going to be looking at increaed temperatures in the forseeably future.
gotta
Muskeg Man, sometimes, you gotta cut down the trees to make 'em grow.

That may not be fact. That is an interpretation that may not be correct. The carbon cycle is quite complex. Lots of things put carbon in the atmosphere. Lots of things take it out. How much goes in and out is related to many things. Many of those things are not associated with human activity. Anytime you have a tropical storm or hurricane taking warm water into colder water you get a massive release of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. It is not only gasses in the atmosphere that must be consiidered when looking at the heat transfer between earth and space. Water vapor and clouds (liquid water) have massive effects but are rarely even considered when running the models. Dust and other particulate material is also quite important and has been the probable cause of rather dramatic climate changes in the past. Particulate matter is rarely considered in models.

Are humans having an impact on the global systems? Probably. You can't clear as much land or put as much stuff into the atmosphere without causing some effect. Are they the main driving influence on the global systems? That question has not been answered and may never be answered.

I just love the smell of Yellow Cedar sawdust in the morning.

I never said we were the driving factor, just that we are putting a lot of carbon in the atmosphere and that it does play a role in trapping more heat here than would be the case. I'm not trying to play the green card here. I personally have excepted the possibility of rising temperatures as a possibility for both good and bad. Humans will be able to make due, whatever the case is. Wild organisms in nature may not.

As Josie said "Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."

[quote=Jeffrey]... just that we are putting a lot of carbon in the atmosphere and that it does play a role in trapping more heat here than would be the case./quote]

We are shifting a lot of carbon from one reservoir in the carbon cycle to another by burning fossil fuels. That carbon does not sit in the atmosphere but rather cycles into other reservoirs. How fast the cycle runs depends on lots of things. We don't know whether the increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide is due to humans flooding the system with too much atmospheric carbon dioxide or whether it is due to other factors not related to human activity. Warming can increase atmospheric carbon dioxide levels. You can dissolve a lot more carbon dioxide in cold water than you can in warm water. Is the increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide causing the warming or is the warming causing an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide? The increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide seems to lag behind increased temperatures in most cases. That is why I warned not to confuse correlation with cause-and-effect.

Look at the entire system to try to understand how it works. Concentrating on one part of the very complex system can lead to very incomplete answers.