Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Quiet-22

"but the 10-22 with the 22 short bolt in it cycled just like a 10-22 on hi velocity, 25 rounds down range in 4 seconds without a jam. Accurary out at 50 yards ran 1/2" "

gemby,

That sounds awesome...maybe even better than .22 shorts in my book! Let us know how accurate they are in your other rifles.

Thanks,

Jerry

I got these for pest control for the yard I dont shoot anything but top notch ammo out of my good rifle 40X, 52, sako, 10-22 gets everything through them, go 1/2" groups with them out to 50 yards alot better then what I can get with cb's and then I dont get a ring in the chamber from shooting longs

$1.80/bx sounds like very old stock! possibly?

$8.00/100 pack is the typical price I see for current CCI CB Shorts AND Longs. Also, $25/$26 a brick for the new CCI Quiet-22's is fairly reasonable with the vendors in my area (north of seattle). Last CCI Standard Vel .22LR's I paid for were @$21.00+ / brick (not inexpensive, but thats a current price).

The Rem CBees I tried didn't seem that quiet. Waiting to see what's said about the CCI quiet stuff.

Ernie

Scott,

I know you may be a touch busy with some minor matters, but I do hope you get to the range this weekend and try out the new CCI ammo.(grins)

All the best, and congrats.

Steve

The primary factor in muzzle report is exit pressure, not the charge per se. For a given load exit pressure will generally be lower with a longer barrel. Exit pressure for a given velocity might be altered somewhat by playing around with different powders but I doubt the results will be obvious to the average ear.

A related factor in the equation is expansion ratio, which correlates with exit pressure. ER is case volume (base of a seated bullet is the datum) to bore volume. You can correctly infer from this that shorts have advantage over long rifles in a given barrel, albeit the difference is not great. Long rifles in an average .22 barrel run in the mid to high 1:30's range (ER), shorts a fair bit more. If the bullet weight is the same, it will take a bit more powder to move a bullet from the LR case at the same velocity as the short, this due to lower initial pressure, if all else is equal. Same show, different bang as it were.

In the case of the .22 LR Quiet, the bullet is about 30% heavier and has more bearing surface. It will take more powder to equal the MV as a short and thus produce a small bit more noise, assuming equal length barrels, or the same gun. The LR will likely be much more accurate in a LR chamber.

Some years ago Paco Kelly did some work with the .45-70 and roundball loads using a very small charge of powder and the ball seated at the bottom of the case. If I'm properly informed this is where the term "cat sneeze load" originated. They were quiet and still lethal on small game. I had similar experience with the .44 Mag in a rifle using paper patched round balls over about 1.5-2 grains of Bullseye. Odd report, about like a healthy beer fart.

The short version of all the above: Long barrels and little powder is your friend if quiet is the objective. Light bullets help reach the desired velocity and something in the range of 600-750 fps is practical regardless of caliber. If you need something quieter you probably need a can, but I've fired CB shorts and the .44 loads in close proximity to people that either did not hear or failed to recognize what they heard. Their dogs did however... Both loads will kill stuff on the spot if applied to the brain or cervical vertebrae.

A note of caution to those building their own loads: Don't try this theory with jacketed bullets as they will almost certainly stick in the bore. BTDT

Steelhead any update?

My experience with any of the underpowered stuff is they are too erratic, I had the Colibri and loved the noise level but the 4-6" fliers at 25 yards left much to be desired.

Also as Dan mentioned about the cat sneeze loads, 158-180gr cast over 2.5gr of bullseye in .35 Whelen or .358 is almost as quiet as the Colibri and does about 700fps.

Interesting data!, Dan. Would love to see the technique used to load those .45/70 cat-loads, since that's on a tapered case. Not questioning, just saying.

Also one technique I;ve read about but have to try with lead balls in reduced loads is sizing/swaging slightly over-size lead balls to a correct bore size through a sizer die. Triple ought-buckshot or .375" (.36 cal) black powder balls might could be used to make .358/.359 cal 'boolits' for those cat's sneeze loads.

MINIMUM VELOCITY? Is 600fps really a safe velocity to reload to? Somewhere I was taught 700fps (minimum) is supposed to be much safer. Is that just someone's opinion? or myth? Thanks!

Regarding quiet and "CB" rimfire loadings, still waiting to make up my mind which one is best.

DIGRESSING a little: It might also be interesting to see how those two reduced-load rimfires might could cycle a lightweight (Volquartsen) SA bolt in a modified (long rifle) M10/22 (with the ltwt bolt originally made for the .22 Short 10/22 kit made by Volquartsen).

Don't know the technique used for what I've read of Mr. Kelly's work with the .45-70. Likewise I'm not clear on the taper issue you raise.



As for the .44 Mag loads I worked with they were sized to .422" and wrapped with 2 layers of 9# onionskin. I loaded both one and two ball loads w/o crimp. I also did some of this with conical bullets of 300 grains, a FNCB patched form that flew with the same charge. There was no question in my mind it was slower than 700 fps but I did not run it over the Chrony. There was also no question about the bullet clearing the barrel.

Single ball accuracy at 25 yards was around 1". Double ball accuracy was a bit curious, with the consistent creation of two groups, one at point of aim, the other about 6" to the 10 o'clock. Both groups ran about the same 1" size for two series of 3 shots each.

Myth or fact is your call.

There was a recent thread at RFC on the matter of making a 10-22 run with CBs and using a standard bolt to do it. Boiled down to polishing the surfaces that interact during bolt cycle and cutting springs a small bit, but it worked in the end. As I recall the gun still functioned with LR subs afterward but I'm not sure of the advisability to doing that.

Thanks for your reply Dan. Question about any myth was if anything as slow as 600fps is safe enough to use as a benchmark MV, but as you said your loads cleared the bore even if you didn't clock them (hard to ignore success ).

Also those POA and '10 o'clock' groups are indeed perplexing! Usually two groups like those will cluster on a vertical line, which is usually the case with loads for the Judge wheelguns, and duplex loads I've seen.

As for a taper with the .45/70 case, you can see a slight taper on the outside but the brass is indeed thickish at the inside base (I failed to remember) and if its like some plastic shotshells that have thick side walls but "thin" towards the case mouth, it sounds like it isn't a problem afterall and my concern was for naught!

In addition I have no problem with the concept of making innovative loads in many cartridges, and you just helped explain/alleviate Dan, how a viable shotshell could be made (within limts, not unlike with the .444) if a person was using the .45/70 and .444 cases to create an array of "survival" rounds!

Back in 1972, an exclusive article in the 10th ed Handloader's Digest was written about doing exactly that, using the the .444 Marlin as an all-around survival rifle! Personally I don't shoot the .444, although it did show some promise.

Also that specialized M10/22 you mentioned discussed at Rimfire Central; Good to know there's information like that available. Thanks!, SD

Thanks gemby. Now I got something else to buy...


Travis

SD, I recall the article you refer to, read it several times over the years. Speculation on my part but I'd think the .45-70 loads probably involved a card wad, maybe more. If there is any taper in the .44 case it is sufficiently small so as to not present a problem. Loading patched round balls did require slight flaring of the case mouth and a very gentle touch with a taper crimp die to remove the flare.

An observation about the CB ammo. I have experienced excellent accuracy with the CB shorts, but I'm shooting them from a rifle chambered for that cartridge and the case is, well, short. Haven't tried any of the LR variants but found less accuracy with CB longs in a LR chamber. Presumably this comes from the larger case volume and the powder wandering around. Some years ago Crossfireoops suggested elevating the muzzle between shots to settle the powder in a consistent position. It works. Might help the LR versions too... Maybe.

Last thing on this is sound levels. I happen to have a sound meter and ran some tests on CB S/L and CCI SV from several guns a few years ago. The CB ammo ran from about 80-85 Dba in various barrel lengths and the SV ammo was very consistent in a 26" barrel at about 88-89 Dba. The meter was 10' from the muzzle perpendicular to the bore. FYI 55 Dba is what you hear in normal conversation. If you wife is always angry it might be around 90 Dba or higher.

I definitely understand that sentiment!

Great comments. And tilting the muzzle 'UP' to strive for some consistency is a good suggestion.

A card wad like this...

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/

Sorry, cant get a link to the page, go to articles and then towards the bottom there is one on snake loads. Would be interesting in a 45-70 case full of #6s.

Pretty much...

Had a big ground squirrel problem at work a few years ago that poison would not completely cure.

A 28" barreled Winchester 52B with CCI CB Longs was the answer.

Screen taken off of my office window and rifle stashed behind the fax machine table. Secretary in front office never even heard the firing pin click when my door was open, accuracy was minute of squirrel and thumped them good to about 25 yards. Absolutely no noise. Same loads in a 23 inch barrel sounds a lot like a kid firing a cap gun.

Going to try the new quiet loads and see how they measure up in the 52.

in a longer barrel 22 they will be alot more quiet, theres a big difference between the noise out of my 18" youth 581 and my 24" 581 with these loads and out of the 28" 52 it would be next to non

Live near Eugene, Or.

Anyone find the CCI quiet 22 around here???

Been looking, but haven't found any yet.

Thanks! Virgil B.

LOL
Maybe for a lizard.

I live north of Seattle, quite a ways away from the Oregon border.

Went looking for some yesterday; bought 3 bricks from Kesselring's for $35 apiece; haven't tried them yet.

In another gun shop I checked first, the greedy bisturds were charging $49.95 per brick of 500! Soon as I saw what they wanted, spun on my heels and promptly left.

I won't subsidize greed with my patronage. Crazy thing is that same shop charged me $20/brick for CCI .22LR Std Velocity only a year ago!

MidwayUSA listed Quiet-22 brick's for $27-$28 (plus shipping).

And Lewiston, ID isn't that much further from Portland than Seattle.

My suggestion Virgil is to keep looking, esp at your best ma & pa gun stores, but also armed with a little knowledge on prices! If you're charged more than $3.50/box of fifty or $35/brick, you're being hosed!