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Joined: Jan 2008
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Campfire Regular
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John,
You asked for some specific instances.
Back in the early 60s' my friends and I all had surplus rifles converted to sporters. We were young and broke, and surplus ammo was cheap for plinking and practice.
You keyed in on the major issue with the older designs, condition and metallurgy of the cartridges. A friend with a 95 Chilean mauser was shooting 7x57 175 gr. rn ball ammo when a case split longitudinally just forward of the web. The escaping gas vented back thru the action and carried brass particles into his right eye. Luckily, the micro surgery of the day was up to removing the brass from the surface of his eye, because he repeated the event with the same ammo about a month later. I witnessed both incidents. And yes, most of us got a lot smarter.
My own experience consists of three incidents where I blew primers in my VZ-24 actioned 7x57 sporter. The first was the result of some enthusiastic charges of W760 which were indeed giving me some impressive velocities with the 130 Speer. I was unaware of the primer pocket failure until I noticed the absence of the fired primer. No sticky bolt lift or any other signs. The inside of the bolt, most of the interior action, and even the flange on the bolt sleeve were very dirty from escaping gas but I never felt even a breeze from the event. The other two incidents resulted from the same poor judgement, and each time higher temperatures pushed things over the edge. I pulled the barrel from this action last year. After 18 years and many rounds there is no lug set back in the receiver.
Another incident I witnessed was with a Carcano and much more serious. Again surplus ammo was the culprit. A longitudinal split right ahead of the web was bad enough to ruin the sight in this persons right eye.
I suspect that brittle brass was/is the culprit in these types of case failures. I even had one with factory .308 Winchester last year in my wifes X-Bolt. The rifle handled the situation perfectly.
You are also quite correct that the pre-64 Model 70 does a poor job of handling escaping gas. I'll be shooting my 03-A3 later today and it is the direct source of the M70 design. I'll be wearing shooting glasses.
A.J.
I've only got one eye. I'm pretty careful about not using brass whose history I don't know, I throw brass away before most folks will, and I don't use the higher end of the reloading data very often. But the biggest thing I do is have eyeglasses of polycarbonate, and since I can't see well without 'em, never fire a round of anything without them on. I've never had a problem, but I like the insurance. I've got a buddy with great vision, and he shoots a lot without shooting glasses. I have been trying to talk him out of that habit. I've a Kimber 84, and was pleased to read an article by Brian Pearce where he said he did have a couple of mishaps with a Kimber, and he said they handled the escaping gas quite nicely.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,648
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2002
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A stock for a 95 pretty well fits a Mexican. I've had to fit ever drop in stock I've tried. --- Mel
The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Too old to suffer fools
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,418
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Hi all:
A slightly sporterized Spanish Mauser in very nice condition just dropped into my hands...at least I THINK it's a Spanish Mauser.
The markings on the action include "Fabrico de Armas" in a half-circle around a crown, "OVIEDO" and "1909". The 23 1/2 inch barrel has a couple of steps down from the receiver but has no markings except for a small flaming bomb-type thing that I think is a proof mark. There is no caliber designation. Shiny bore.
I'm guessing it's an 1893 mauser action in 7x57 caliber. What I do know is that a .308 cal bullet won't fit into the end of the barrel and a 7x57 factory round chambers and ejects easily.
I'm considering keeping it, if I can make it a little more suitable for hunting (deer, antelope and elk) and stay within a pretty strict budget (after all, you can get some pretty nice brand new rifles these days for $300).
In its its favor, it has a nice, straight-grained walnut stock, a decent recoil pad and a pretty fair reblue job.
On the other had, the bent bolt has not been forged to clear a scope, the trigger is original military with the military safety and it's not drilled and tapped for a scope.
I've heard that CDNN has a scope base for a Moisin-Nagant that will fit this Mauser using the rear sight holes. Then I could mount a pistol scope to help my aging eyes. I know my gunsmith wouldn't charge me much to clean up the trigger.
I have two questions for the group:
1. Can anyone recommend a reliable pistol scope or extended-eye relief scope that won't break the bank? I'm thinking 2 1/2x would be about right.
2. I don't know much about the strength of the action, but I don''t think I'd want to push it beyond standard factory loads. Anyone have moderate pressure handload data I could use with 140 gr NBTs (since I already have some on hand) for deer and antelope, or 160-175 grain bullets for elk?
I probably wouldn't give this rifle a second look if I were at a gun show, but it shoulders nicely and someone obviously took some care with the little bit of sporterizing that was done. And, of course, it's a 7x57!
I think it would make a great backup rifle or loaner, or a terrific 1st gun for a kid. What do you say? S&K makes a very nice mount that uses the barrel mounted rear sight base as its base. I have two of them, one on a 98 Mauser, and the other on a Mosin-Nagant. I am using Burris 2.75x Scout scopes on both, and have had no problems with either. The mounts are very well made and have held zero for more than a few years now. I was very surprised how much more accurate these Scout scopes/mounts made my shooting in comparison to the original sights, especially on the '98 Mauser. I could actually see to aim. I highly recommend them especially if you're trying to preserve the originality of a MilSurp. All it takes to bring it back to original is re-installation of the barrel mounted sights. If however, yours has already been "bubba'd", you might consider bending the bolt handle and having the receiver D&T'd for scope mounts. There are also good triggers available from Timney and JARD, and Bueller used to make a decent safety. I would definitely keep the original chambering in the 7x57, as that's a great game round at its original loading pressures. If you handload, stick to the book and don't push things. If you want a magnum, buy a modern rifle designed for one. Just my .02. Have fun with it regardless.
If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks..., will deprive the People of all their Property,...Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire Regular
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As I understand it, there is very little chance of any kind of Mauser going KABOOM unless it is loaded with insane loads. The ones that are soft may experience setback in the lugs that can lead to headspace issues, but a soft Mauser is not going to blow up off the bat. They are hard on the outside of the steel and soft on the inside so that instead of blowing up, they deform. The so-called "soft" ones usually did not have proper heat treating on the outside or have lost some metal and therefore, deform much easier. But the softness, actually keeps them from blowing up as a more brittle action might do. Is my understanding more or less correct?
Now, I can tell you from personal experience that a ruptured case results in a little more than a slight peppering and singing of the forehead with 98 action. I've only had one of those in a lifetime, luckily it was with a 98.
Last edited by Cossatotjoe_redux; 02/20/12.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
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That sounds like it might be a Mexican small ring '98? Does it have a springfield-style cocking piece on the bolt shroud? There is no such thing as a small ring 98. 
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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That sounds like it might be a Mexican small ring '98? Does it have a springfield-style cocking piece on the bolt shroud? There is no such thing as a small ring 98. ???  Terry
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
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Funny, I've got 2 rifles with Mexican SR 1898 style actions.
Jeff
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Funny, I've got 2 rifles with Mexican SR 1898 style actions.
Jeff what you have is most likley a spanish or mexican mdl 1912 mauser. they are similar but are not the same as the 98. being a 98 style or similar action does not make it a 98. if that were the case all bolt actions would be a 98 style action. I have a book that has every mdl made for the military up to about 1950. and no where does it call spanish or mexican mausers a 98 or smallring 98. it says they are similar to a 98.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The difference between a SR 1898 style action and a SR pre-1898 style is that SR 1898 style actions are designed to cock on openning, they have a 3rd, auxillary, locking lug, and they have a larger gas shield.
I have a 257 Roberts built on a Mexican 1910 action that I bought from Mule Deer in 2003 and a 243 built on a Mexican 1936 action that I bought at Cabela's in Lavista, NE, in 2011. Both are 1898 style SR actions.
Jeff
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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The difference between a SR 1898 style action and a SR pre-1898 style is that SR 1898 style actions are designed to cock on openning, they have a 3rd, auxillary, locking lug, and they have a larger gas shield.
I have a 257 Roberts built on a Mexican 1910 action that I bought from Mule Deer in 2003 and a 243 built on a Mexican 1936 action that I bought at Cabela's in Lavista, NE, in 2011. Both are 1898 style SR actions.
Jeff you are right they are 98 style but they are not 98s.
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