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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
I'm elk hunting for the first time this year and nothing smaller than a 260 will go with me. More than likely it'll be my 350 Rem Mag. And the latter would be a great choice. Jayco
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
How about the .243 for Grizz?Phil Shoemaker thinks it would work with quality bullets.
All the years I guided both sheep and grizzly hunters in the =hugach, Talkeetna and Brooks ranges I never ran across a grizzly that I would have been hesitant to shoot with a .243 Win. with quality bullets. I'm not saying it is what I would choose or recommend but have no doubt I would have been 100% safe from any grizzly in open country.
Then the lowly .223 should kill Elk just dandy,they don't bite back.
Jayco
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,984
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,984 |
I can see the cattle rancher, waiting on top of his haystack for the elk to come into feed and then popping one in the head while they mill around below making a valid scenario.
I suspect that the majority of guys on here havent used a .223 on elk or even plan to do so, but are just making the point that it is legal in some areas and it will kill elk.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
Like I said, there's more than a few of us around here, that if the requiremnet presented itself, we'd figure out how to get it done.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,984
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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I like the idea of having to harvest a grizzly with your .243, before you can take an elk with a .223 !!
Keep 'em coming logcutter ! (smile) You must be even more bored then I !!!
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
I'd have no worries about taking a griz with a 243 on decent terms.
They're not that wide, and plenty of them have been taken with a bow. Stick a decent bullet in behind the front shoulder and it'll run a short bit and topple over.
Once again this stuff is rocket science only if one chooses to make it such.
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026 |
If you can't kill an elk with a .223 there is somthing wrong with you, not the cartridge... Just sayin... 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,086
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,984
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Understand...and if your cartridge of choice would be the .223, then there would be something wrong with you..Just sayin (smiley face also !)
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
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Understand...and if your cartridge of choice would be the .223, then there would be something wrong with you..Just sayin (smiley face also !)  . I use a 338 win mag...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,984
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,984 |
my rifle of choice for years was a .340 using a bipod...the third time it opened me up from a prone position, I decided it "was to heavy" ! (smile) settle for the wimpy .300's and 7mm's now !
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,076
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,076 |
Case in point, humans aren't as tough as big game animals when shot. The 5.56 has been used in the military since Vietnam, BUT ask most combat vets if they wish they had more killing power, frontal area, etc. and the answer would be a resounding YES. Think about it... the 6.8 SPC was designed from the ground up to compete with and beat ballistically the 7.62x39 cartridge because of the lack of knockdown power the 5.56 had.
They are using the wrong bullets. Well actually they are now starting to use the right bullets. When "Brown Tip" is said that means 70gr X bullets. When MK318 or SOST is said that means the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw without the bonding. When MK262 is said that means the Sierra Match King 77gr HPBT. The US Military most likely has more experienced gun fighters serving now than at any time in history and the overwhelming satisfaction with the 5.56/.223 as a fighting round in the units that have the most gun fighting experience is well known. When UBL got his door kicked down the fellows that kicked the door and subsequently gave him one to the chest and one to the head had a lot of latitude in selecting the cartridge they were going to use and the 5.56/.223 was the choice. The resulting case of "canoe head" was the cause of much controversy and was the excuse used to not show the world pictures of his dead body. The .223 has a lot of momentum around here. It seems to be against the rules to comdemn the use of it regardless of what you are hunting. If you want to stay flame free just applaud the use of the .223 on anything out there. White Rhino at 600 yards? No problem! Go use a .223 on something with a Barnes solid and you will be part of the club. I guess I missed the part where anybody in the entire thread recommended the .223 as a great elk cartridge. Seems I read a lot of �limited range�, �stay off the shoulder�, �place it in the armpit�, and also a lot of comparison to muzzle loaders and �stuff used in days gone by�. No one here has ever said the .223 was a good choice for a general elk hunt but most of the experienced elk hunters have said it would not be a daunting task to go fill an elk tag with a .223 and a proper bullet. Nobody has said it would be their first choice except as a way to add some challenge to a hunt in the same way a muzzle loader or archery equipment adds challenge. I'd like to ask a serious question. Not trolling. Just curious.
Why use a .223 on big game? Why use a bow? Why use a muzzle loaded? Why use a revolver? I think Logcutter got himself a new black gun and it has all these crazy ideas swirling in his noggin. I must admit I almost got a cow tag in NM this year to go get one with a 16 inch AR. I may have to make it happen this year.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026 |
Case in point, humans aren't as tough as big game animals when shot. The 5.56 has been used in the military since Vietnam, BUT ask most combat vets if they wish they had more killing power, frontal area, etc. and the answer would be a resounding YES. Think about it... the 6.8 SPC was designed from the ground up to compete with and beat ballistically the 7.62x39 cartridge because of the lack of knockdown power the 5.56 had.
They are using the wrong bullets. Well actually they are now starting to use the right bullets. When "Brown Tip" is said that means 70gr X bullets. When MK318 or SOST is said that means the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw without the bonding. When MK262 is said that means the Sierra Match King 77gr HPBT. The US Military most likely has more experienced gun fighters serving now than at any time in history and the overwhelming satisfaction with the 5.56/.223 as a fighting round in the units that have the most gun fighting experience is well known. When UBL got his door kicked down the fellows that kicked the door and subsequently gave him one to the chest and one to the head had a lot of latitude in selecting the cartridge they were going to use and the 5.56/.223 was the choice. The resulting case of "canoe head" was the cause of much controversy and was the excuse used to not show the world pictures of his dead body. The .223 has a lot of momentum around here. It seems to be against the rules to comdemn the use of it regardless of what you are hunting. If you want to stay flame free just applaud the use of the .223 on anything out there. White Rhino at 600 yards? No problem! Go use a .223 on something with a Barnes solid and you will be part of the club. I guess I missed the part where anybody in the entire thread recommended the .223 as a great elk cartridge. Seems I read a lot of �limited range�, �stay off the shoulder�, �place it in the armpit�, and also a lot of comparison to muzzle loaders and �stuff used in days gone by�. No one here has ever said the .223 was a good choice for a general elk hunt but most of the experienced elk hunters have said it would not be a daunting task to go fill an elk tag with a .223 and a proper bullet. Nobody has said it would be their first choice except as a way to add some challenge to a hunt in the same way a muzzle loader or archery equipment adds challenge. I'd like to ask a serious question. Not trolling. Just curious.
Why use a .223 on big game? Why use a bow? Why use a muzzle loaded? Why use a revolver? I think Logcutter got himself a new black gun and it has all these crazy ideas swirling in his noggin. I must admit I almost got a cow tag in NM this year to go get one with a 16 inch AR. I may have to make it happen this year. Make it happen John. I'd like to see the video of you using it with a 30 round mag, tracers, and fmj's.....Sounds great
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,076
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,076 |
I was more thinking 75gr SSII, a ten round mag and 1 or 2 shots.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026 |
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,936
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,936 |
John Nosler said once that a 225 winchester, while capable of taking a deer, was not the right choice. It's great stuff, can you kill with the 22 cal, sure, but I believe it is a question of ethics. We owe it to the animal to insure an ethical kill. Also, while one may be able to do it, Fifty others cant. Common sense tells you not to, at least it does for me. As for a lion with the 22 rimfire, with five dogs surrounding the tree, great, but if you are the lone ranger doing the shooting with no backup, I sure want something bigger than a 22 rimfire for lions. Finally, I strongly suspect the ones who do use 22 cal for big game have all lost game before, they just wont tell you about it.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 580
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 580 |
You could use a spoon to dig a grave but a back hoe works better.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
John Nosler said once that a 225 winchester, while capable of taking a deer, was not the right choice. It's great stuff, can you kill with the 22 cal, sure, but I believe it is a question of ethics. We owe it to the animal to insure an ethical kill. Also, while one may be able to do it, Fifty others cant. Common sense tells you not to, at least it does for me. As for a lion with the 22 rimfire, with five dogs surrounding the tree, great, but if you are the lone ranger doing the shooting with no backup, I sure want something bigger than a 22 rimfire for lions. Finally, I strongly suspect the ones who do use 22 cal for big game have all lost game before, they just wont tell you about it. I've lost game with a .30-06.. What was your point again?
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I've never lost a critter with a 223AI. Not saying I'd use it for elk, just saying.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,059
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,059 |
John Nosler said once that a 225 winchester, while capable of taking a deer, was not the right choice.... Was that before, or after, Nosler introduced the 60gr Partition?
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