Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns the famous caliber debate...

My favorite carry 45 ACP is my Glock 36 and i carry it on a regular basis when carrying a 45 . It isn't all that heavy so i can carry all day without hardy knowing i have it on. I carry mostly in a Fobus Paddle Holster with one extra Mag. I sometimes carry inside the belt but i find outside carry much more comfortable regardless of the type or brand inside the belt holster i use. My carry load is the Speer 230 gr Gold Dot

I have a buddy that starting CCW'ing a G36 a couple of years back.
He loves it!

If you are in the Market for a Glock and don't care if the magazine won't hold a halve a box of ammo, then give the 36 a look . It is one of the best Glocks for conceal carry . 6 in the mag and one in the tube.

A real difference between a self defense weapon and a gun to be used on game is that the goals are not the same. The purpose of a self defense gun is to make your opponent quit what he is doing a break off the comfrontation. Killing him is a secondary benifit.

Most of the time (probably in excess of 80%) you can end a self defense event with a starter pistol. As soon as they hear the "pop" they are headed for other places. This is very different than a law enforcement situation where a true "gun fight" might take place. Criminals, in general, are not that brave.....or crazy.

The idea of "stopping power" is over-rated. All you need do is get their attention and the fight is over......most of the time.

With game it is a different ballgame. You need to hit hard and avoid the animal running off to possibly die later. A good blood trail and quick stop is MUCH more important than it is (most of the time) in a self defense encounter. Killing isn't good enough if you can't find the animal after the shot.

Don't know about where you live, but here, we seldom trail up a wounded mugger and eat him......making him quit and run a way is good enough.

There is MUCH truth in your post Sir.

Very true

I've said before, the stats I want to see are for one-shot cease & desist.

The link I posted has that data in it...... http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

That's an interesting report.

MM

...very interesting report....but I can not agree with his Conclusion because it flies right in the face of his Incapacitation Index...

Conclusion

"This study took me a long time and a lot of effort to complete. Despite the work it took, I'm glad I did it. The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn't that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers. None is a death ray, but most work adequately...even the lowly .22s. I've stopped worrying about trying to find the "ultimate" bullet. There isn't one. And I've stopped feeling the need to strap on my .45 every time I leave the house out of fear that my 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important."

Yet two paragraphs before he has a chart showing the "Failure to incapacitate" that shows a WIDE difference in calibers...

He says the exact same thing as M&S but in reverse.

Bob

I'd like to make a small observation on the "stopping" vs "hunting" thing. If we're going to keep a somewhat apples to apples comparison we don't compare defending ourselves from people to hunting deer but rather to dangerous animails like bear or Cape Buffalo. In both cases you want the threat to your well being stopped before any other consideration. Now I'm not suggesting we have a 1 to 1 comaparison here but, IMHO anyway, a .40/10mm/.44/.45 is certainly closer to the intent of .416/.458 than a .380 or 9mm.

Can (indeed has) a 9mm dropped many a dirtbag? Certainly. Can (indeed has) .30 caliber and even less dropped the largest of African dangerous game? Absolutely. But when it's my (admittedly a bit too ample at the moment) arse on the line I'll hedge whatever bets wherever I can. Whether it be a drugged up douchebag or surly 1/2 ton of pissed off buff inbound I prefer my caliber start with 4.

Good point.

Wounding may or may not stop an aggressor, finality will for sure and certain

Boococky, you nailed it. I know of Mr. Ellifritz through my dealings with OPOTA, and he's a solid instructor, an experienced street cop, and a smart man. Anybody who wants to debate "stopping power" need do nothing more than read his paper, particularly this quote:

"Now compare the numbers of the handgun calibers with the numbers generated by the rifles and shotguns. For me there really isn't a stopping power debate. All handguns suck! If you want to stop someone, use a rifle or shotgun!"

True dat!

you know you are gonna hurt trh's feelers......

tuff titty...

The most important points made by the data in the article were to hit them in the head or torso at least twice, and, if you use a caliber from .38 special up, the percentage of people not incapacitated is bascially the same, except for the .357 and centerfire rifle.

Too bad an M1A1 won't fit in my back pocket, Doc. I'd be set!

Maybe the most important conclusion to draw & remember................

But for me, I'm still keeping my 45's & 40's.

MM