Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles 221 Fireball

Just screwed a fireball bbl ( heavy )onto a savage model 11 action , Cking the load charts looks like 4198 is the powder, I hate stick powder anyone tell me what the best ball powder would be will use 40 - 50 gr bullets

I've had good luck with AA1680 and 40gr V-Max's.

I've had excellent luck with Li'l Gun with both 40's and 50's. Excellent accuracy and velocities, and it's ball.

I tried a bunch of different powders after getting my rifle, and while some others worked well, Li'l Gun worked best with all bullet weights. (Of course that's just one rifle.) The load I settled on was 15.5 grains with a 40-grain bullet, for 3400-3450 depending on the bullet and 5 shots in 1/2" to 3/4" at 100, again depending on the bullet.

I'll second that.

Li'l Gun and light Ballistic Tips make for a fun little rifle!

Another easy-measuring favorite in the Fireball is RL-7.

Lil Gun but AA1680 worked pretty good with a little more velocity with 40 grain NBT.

Yep, little gun and RL 7 super for a super little gun. Worked for me and both shot way under an inch in my CZ.

Lil Gun -- period. I have a 1-14 recycled barrel screwed on a Stevens 200 and have the exact same load as John does, 15.5 under 40s. Half inch shooter all the time, not bad for 500 bucks lock stock scope trigger and barrel.
And, if you have Blue Dot, that works too.
But be cautious. That's a small case and tenths matter. But get it right and boy, you'll be delighted.

+1
RL7 works well with 50gr Rem PLHP bullets in my Vixen.

have had good luck with 1680.

Ed

Mine does its best work with IMR 4227 and the 40 gr Berger HP at about 3200 fps. The Sierra 40 gr Blitzking and HP Varminter are almost as good.

Thanks Gentlemen I have some W680 guess Ill try that & a Small bit of lil gun enuf to try

As a 20+yr shooter/reloader of the fantastic Fireball, I've tried a lot of powders. But several yrs ago the AA1680 load under any of the poly-tip 40gr pills became the best go-to load for either of my Fireball rifles. Very fast AND accurate.
RL-7 or LilGun are close seconds. AA's 2200DP also works well, and maybe the new 2200 will also.
I seldom use the 50's, but did find good loads using H322 or AA2015.
Several new powders have come out that are likely applicable, but I doubt I'll move away from 1680.

I always keep an extra 5 pounds of RL-7 around for my 221 Fireball.

I have about 250 rounds of 221 loaded with the last pound of 680 that I had. I worked it up from 16 grns and ended up with the same amount of powder that I use in my AA1680 load. I don't know if it was a fluke or if 680 and 1680 were(are) that similar in burn rate.The 680 load is a lttle bit faster and a hair more accurate.

Add me to the RL-7 list, outstanding stuff.

AA1680 for me

I'm wondering what kind of powder charges all the RL-7 and AA1680 fans are using.

As noted earlier, I tested a pile of bullets and powders in my rifle (a 700 Classic) and never could close to Li'l Gun velocities with either RL-7 or 1680. Published data was used for all the load work-up, and even a slightly below-max charge of 15.5 grains of Li'l Gun and the 40-grain Ballistic Tip beat the max load of RL-7 by 100 fps and 1680 by over 300 fps.

In fact I couldn't beat my .22 Hornet velocities with 1680, at least with published data, though my Hornet does have a 26" barrel.

I use 18-18.5 grains of R-7, but I don't really put an emphasis on speed. Think it clocks just under 3,200 with a 24" barrel.

I have too many 222's to worry about it!

I use 19.5gr of 1680. Have pushed it up to 20.8 but accuracy suffers noticeably. 19.5 behind a 40 gr VMax is right at 3450fps out of a well broke(23 years old) stainless Douglas barrel, 14 twist, 22 inches long.
This load is from Accurate's loading data from a few years back, specifically for rifles. I see that they now have no data what so ever for the 221 in their online web site.

222Sako,

Thanks for the info. I tried up to 18 grains, the maximum listed in Nosler's latest book, with the 40-grain Ballistic Tip and got about 3075 and mediocre accuracy from a 24" barrel.

No doubt this is due at least partly to variations in powder lots. Accurate used to be a company that bought surplus powders, but now that they're owned by Western Powders) they're made to Western's specifications.

I saw a green blade of grass today.

We've had 'em here in the Banana Belt for a few days--but not many blades are green!

I've only used RL-7, but that's with the 50 gr v-max. Accuracy has been steller, but I haven't had a chance to clock them. I'd expect RL7 to be too slow of a powder for best performance with the lighter bullets.

I used 4198 when I felt like weighing charges, AA 1680 when I didn't. (For me RL7 would have been a success, too, but the other two gave better accuracy.)

I tried a few different bullets but far and away the most useful were the 40 grain VMAX and Ballistic Tip. The VMAX seemed to "whop" a little harder, the B-tip was fractionally more accurate. Since the VMAX was plenty accurate enough (groups in the high .3s) that's what I settled on.

Tom

I use RL-7 and 40gr V-Max in my LVSF. It will put them into little groups every time. Don't have a crony so I don't know the speed, but nothing I have shot with it has been around long enough to tell.

Paperkiller: Back in 1994 I purchased a Kimber of Oregon "Ultra-Varmint" Rifle in caliber 221 Remington Fireball - and over the years I have not found a powder it likes more than IMR 4227!
This Rifle of mine really likes Berger 40 grainers nowadays with this powder.
Be sure and try those.
My newer Remington 700 Classic in 221 Fireball does its best with "Lil'Gun" powder and 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips.
Good luck with your Fireball.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

off topic a hair here ... but

VG, even moreso than me you have a zillion varmint rigs...

I am sure like me, when you go out you have half a dozen guns or more with you...

I was just thinking as I packed up for this last varmint outing, what in the heck am I doing?

I have ammo for this, ammo for that.. and then for each rig, I have half a dozen different loads...and on and on and on...

then most of it stays in the vehicle..

I'm on a mission instead to start just loading up 500 rounds that are the same load, and when it is time to load up... grab a filled container of 500 rounds and go...

already have my rimfire ready to bring along and go..( I am better on that one..)

I was out and took some shots with my 17 HMR again ( the NEF) and once again, it isn't any better than the 22 LR.. except for a little more range..

they are accurate to the same distances as the 22 LR are, even if the wind is blowing.. but beyond that, they become useless...with a slight breeze..

however they are still popular as even this early in the season, the sun sure was shining off a batch of HMR cases laying all over the ground....every where I went..

maybe the rest of you guys already are this organized... and it was just an epiphany for me....

500 to 600 rounds a day are about all I can handle... until I have a headache due to scope squint... maybe better optics would eliminate that tho...

but two containers of 500 rounds each, say three rifles.. and a rim fire and I should be ready to go...

I keep the bipods, binocs, shooting stands etc in the car in a container ready to go all the time...either for the range or the field...and the container is easily transferred from the car to the truck...

so with a 223, I don't need a 221 Fireball, or 218 Bee, or a 22 K Hornet, etc etc...etc..

Seafire: Indeed, when I go ah'Varminting I always take more than one gun.
My Rifle cases are clearly marked with the model and caliber and my centerfire ammo boxes are clearly labeled for caliber and specific Rifle - no problemo.
For Ground Squirrels I usually take four rimfire Rifles and one pistol - for Prairie Doggin the most I have brought along was 14 Rifles and a pistol or two.
Many of the places I Hunt Ground Squirrels "frown on" centerfires - so rimfires are my normal tools.
Do not downplay the extended range of the rimfire 17 HMR vs the rimfire 22 L.R. - they are not even in the same ball park!And yes the wind does effect the 17 HMR - JUST AS IT DOES every bullet ever fired!
A shooter MUST simply familiarize themselves with the wind drift and the trajectory - this is easily doable with the 17 HMR but much harder with the 22 L.R. when afield - especially at the extended ranges!
I have killed many dozens of Varmints out past 200 yards with my 17 HMR's and fully intend to keep doing so the rest of my natural born days!
Just one example for you to enter into your 22 L.R. vs 17 HMR comparisons - my good friend Ron Kesselring (of Kesselrings Gunshop Burlington, Washington) was at the trigger of his heavy barreled CZ in 17 HMR when I spotted a Weasel out at a Leica laser ranged 246 yards.
This scenario took place year before last but the shot stands out clear as a bell in my minds eye.
Ron cut that Weasel in half with his first shot - YOU, nor I nor Ron Kesslering could have achieved that same result with 10 CZ clip loads of 22 L.R. ammuntion!
Remember that a Weasel is much more "slender" than an adult Ground Squirrel.
The accuracy and trajectory of the 22 L.R. would about make the shot my friend made "somewhat easily" with his 17 HMR, next to improbable if not near impossible - and yes there was some wind that day.
I have tried similar shots on numerous occassions with various of my 22 L.R.'s but I don't recall making even ONE!
When Ground Squirrelers get together in numbers there are always 17 HMR's in attendance - and there are MANY significant reasons for that!
I do agree with you though, that the 221 Fireball does have some redundancy when compared to my and your 223's - but I have always enjoyed "more Rifles in more calibers".
I don't know why?
And as far as "round counts" go - I have been known to start getting "queezy" at the 200 to 300 rounds downrange point.
I seldom shoot past 400 rounds a day anymore on Ground Squirrels - I hosted one shooter from Yelm, Washington last year that I had to take back to the "big town" on two seperate days to replenish his originally ample 17 HMR supply - yes he ran out three times on one six day Varmint safari!
I am sure he was going through 1,000 rounds of 17 HMR ammo on certain longs days of Hunting during that safari.
Again, I completely disagree with your description of the 17 HMR as "completely useless with a slight breeze".
I broke down and mortified an "early" Ground Squirrel yesterday - I used my NEF 17 Mach2 on him.
He was in my neighbors field and the neighbor is miffed to the max with these Gophers and has asked me to eliminate them.
I use the 17 rimfires when shooting near "things" human made, as the 17 rimfire bullets seem to pretty reliably "disintegrate" when striking earth, removing much ricochet danger - how does your experience with the 22 L.R. and the 17 rimfires compare ricochet wise between the two?
By the way I just passed 70 (seventy) centerfire Varmint guns and have 10 or so dedicated rimfire Varminters - easily manageable this size arsenal.
Have a great and safe season - and by the way MY donation to your worthy cause has been delayed by my recent trip to the Bozeman Gunshow!
I got "carried away" spending monies there so I will send out funds on April 3rd or so when my pension checks arrive.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

AA 1680 40gr nbt.

For you Fireball owners--does the 221 Fireball recoil enough to lose your sight picture through the scope upon firing? Specifically in a CZ527 weight gun.

Just curious.

MR seafire you talk like a DARN LIBERAL What does NEED have to do with it This is our right and we should use it to the MAX.
Still love ya though like a brother that is.

Depends on how you are riding the gun and your follow-through. I can see the hits about half the time, and when I'm sighting in, the best groups are when I can see the shock wave and the hole happen in the paper.
So depending on scope power and "form" I'd say you can see the whole show if you're doing it right.

Thanks Dave. I've been considering a Fireball for a while, but I honestly don't know anyone locally that has one.

Depends on barrel weight and scope power. Mine are on short Sako actions with Sako varmint weight barrels. Shooting a 40gr bullet there's almost no recoil and I see the whole show perfectly through 20X. A friend's 20" Contender bull barrel had a bit of muzzle rise though.

shortactionsmoker,

My .221 is a Remington 700 Classic with a 3.5-10x40 Leupold in Leupold mounts, weighing 8 pounds 10 ounces. I have no difficulty seeing bullet hits, whether on paper or varmints, with my usual load of a 40-grain bullet at 3400+ fps.

Thanks Ackman--Thanks John. I'm guessing the CZ may have a little jump, but I may still buy it. It would be nice to find a 700 Classic though...

I got a Rem 700 LS 221 Fireball when thy first came out. Dident like the small forarm on it so I put it into a glass bedded Boyd Thumbhole Varmint stock. The load that I like is the 40 Gr V Max bullet ,18.6 Gr of Re 7 powder in Rem cases, using Fed 205 M primers. The Burris 4-16 X AO scope stays on the target with very little recoil jump. Its one of my prairie dog shooting rifles.

I haven't had an issue with that, losing sight picture, that is, and I have a honkin' big scope on the little tyke.