24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,688
kecatt Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,688
Originally Posted by gmsemel
My old 1991 VW Jetta diesel, would average 50 miles to the gallon and driving a steady 60-65 mph on the Interstate I could fill the tank in Niantic, jump on I-95 and drive all day 500 miles get up in the morning and drive another 200 and still have a 100 miles in the tank, and fill up well on the Ohio Toll Road. All from a car that cost me a little over 11,000 dollars to buy 22 years ago. The 2012 models are great cars, and the difference you pay for one of those vs a volt, will have to driving 150000 miles at least before you even spend the money a Volt costs. That 10 years of driving and then some for most. And what was a bonus for me was that every not and again I would just fill it with Jet-A while on flying contracts. I use to work down in the Gulf of Mexico flying helicopters, and my base manager would come up to me and say you do some fly overs this week on my week off, and you can just pump some Jet A when ever you need it. The helicopter I was flying would burn 26 gallons per hour, and I would fly anywhere 5 to 8 hours a day most days. We had 6 helicopters at that base. I would live for fog banks off shore, I once sat watching tv for my whole shift. 14 days and then another 10 on fly over. Flew just four days that month got paid for 30 days. My kind of job.


Love them VW diesels. I was excited about the Ford Fiesta diesel in the works a couple years ago. 65 mpg sounded good to me. I guess they didn't meet EPA regs and are only sold in europe?


I don't eat anything that didn't have a mother.
GB1

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,688
kecatt Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,688
For a basis of comparison I hopped on fueleconomy.gov and compared the Volt to a Ford Fusion hybrid. I have a friend who has a Fusion and loves it.
According to the comparison based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and current fuel prices, annual fuel cost for the Volt is $1614 (premium only) and for the Fusion $1431. This assumes running the Volt on fuel only. Running the Volt on Electric only the annual cost is $648. According to the respective manufacturers websites the Volts MSRP is $31645 and the Fusions MSRP is $28775. I assume these are base model prices and with goodies added will go up a fair amount.
No real point here just food for conversation.


I don't eat anything that didn't have a mother.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,180
Likes: 3
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,180
Likes: 3
Are you kidding? I wouldn't buy one of those pos GM cars with YOUR money...


Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,149
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,149
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Unfortunately, the article didn't mention where the power is supposed to come from.



Don't be silly... the power comes from unicorn farts!


ML


My biggest fear is when I die my wife sells all my gear for what I said I paid for it.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by MacLorry
The cost of electricity in the New York areas as of October 2011 was $0.191. At 16 kwh x $0.191 per kwh it costs $3.06 to charge the battery. That works out to $0.12 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery if you drive like Bolling. For others who get 35 miles per charge it works out to $0.08 per mile at New York rates or $0.05 per mile using the national average residential retail price of electricity of 11.53 cents per kilowatt-hour. That's like paying about $1.85 a gallon for gas.

Here�s where I got the 11.53 cents per kilowatt-hour from: Electricity Prices by State

I see in the April 2012 issue of Motor Trend on page 32 that SunPower is working with Nissan and Ford while SunLogic is working with GM to produce affordable home solar charging units that can provide enough power for 12,000 miles of driving a year in most locations. Honda is developing their own home solar charging units using a thin-film copper-indium-gallium-selenide (CIGS) technology that Honda says has real world performance close to that of the more expensive silicon technology. Amortizing the cost of a $10,000 solar charging unit over 5 years at 12,000 miles a year comes out to 17 cents per mile, but over the 25 year warranty the cost could be as low as 3 cents per mile.

With affordable home solar charging units, we could soon be at a tipping point where the total cost (purchase price + maintenance + fuel) of electric passenger vehicles will be less than similar gas vehicles.


The problem with your logic is you're only comparing the cost of electricity to gasoline and ignoring the much higher initial investment of the Volt. You would have to compare the Volt to a comparable gas vehicle, then include the higher cost of the Volt as part of the per mile cost factor within the expected life span of the battery system.


[Linked Image]



IC B2

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Originally Posted by Redneck
Are you kidding? I wouldn't buy one of those pos GM cars with YOUR money...

The maddening part is that every time a Dolt is sold, it's being bought with YOUR money. I couldn't care less about them otherwise.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by fish head
Slightly off topic but ...

Fox News does not properly investigate their stories before airing them. It doesn't help the cause.


Nor does it help when people take what's in a chain email and conclude that's what Fox News reported.

crazy


[Linked Image]



Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,340
K
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,340
Got Faux news on right now. They are bitchin about the Volt again this morning. Same old story over and over again. Oh yes....and one of the problems is the the battery fires.....lets see "fires" lets see I think there was one....on a smashed car that sat for 20+ days.
But todays fair and balances is saying fires....in the batteries. You know...plural....sounds better. And of course they bring up the $7500 rebates which do not exist....they are credits for your taxes at year end. If you were Mitt Romney you'd save 14% x's $7500= $1050. And of course under several proposed future republican rules you could buy one in your businesses name and write the whole thing off.

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 1
And every time someone gets a home mortgage, the mortgage deduction they take every year for up to 30 years is paid for with my money!

In other words, deductions are fair if YOU receive them, but not fair is someone else receives them.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by walt501
And every time someone gets a home mortgage, the mortgage deduction they take every year for up to 30 years is paid for with my money!

In other words, deductions are fair if YOU receive them, but not fair is someone else receives them.


WTF?

You clearly don't understand the difference between tax deductions and tax credits.

crazy


[Linked Image]



IC B3

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,237
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,237
To the OP -

Actually I think we ALL own all of them . . . frown


Someday I hope to be the person my dogs think I am . . .
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
Someone once said "a nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves."
Shiloh Sharps . . . there is no substitute.
NRA Endowment Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by kraky111
Got Faux news on right now. They are bitchin about the Volt again this morning. Same old story over and over again. Oh yes....and one of the problems is the the battery fires.....lets see "fires" lets see I think there was one....on a smashed car that sat for 20+ days.
But todays fair and balances is saying fires....in the batteries. You know...plural....sounds better. And of course they bring up the $7500 rebates which do not exist....they are credits for your taxes at year end. If you were Mitt Romney you'd save 14% x's $7500= $1050. And of course under several proposed future republican rules you could buy one in your businesses name and write the whole thing off.


Krackhead, NHTSA (AKA the Federal Government) opened a defect investigation because of the fires, not Fox News.

GM halted production and considered a redesign of the battery packs because of NHTSA, not Fox News.

There were at least 2 fires reported by NHTSA, not Fox News, and those were under NHTSA testing. That doesn't include the alleged fires that occurred in private hands.

Stop being a retard for 3 minutes, if you can.



[Linked Image]



Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by walt501
And every time someone gets a home mortgage, the mortgage deduction they take every year for up to 30 years is paid for with my money!

In other words, deductions are fair if YOU receive them, but not fair is someone else receives them.


WTF?

You clearly don't understand the difference between tax deductions and tax credits.

crazy


So tell me, do each reduce taxes owned to the Federal Government? If so, I'm picking up the tab, now aren't I?

Look what the mortgage interest deduction has done, distorted the the home market. How many "McMansions" have been built in the past 20 years that are lived in by 2 people solely for the purpose of maximizing the mortgage tax deduction?

If you're going to argue against the Volt tax credit, I'm going to lobby to take away your mortgage tax deduction because I rent. Game on.

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
It's a non-refundable tax credit so if you owe $7,500 or more in taxes, subtract $7,500 from the check you'd have to write otherwise. Tax rate is irrelevant. I think there's a credit for chargers too. (Effectively a rebate to people "rich" enough to owe $7,500 in tax. Now what percentage of the population has zero or nominal tax liability?)

Depreciation deduction is a whole 'nother animal. A common way to put more money into a business sector NOW is to allow capital investments to be expensed over one or a few years rather than many. Net there is no change in the deduction, just the timing. IF a business has enough income to benefit from the higher deduction in current years.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
The mortgage deduction is long-standing social policy more than anything. Financing games caused the market distortion, with people mortgaging way over their heads with low rate adjustables expecting the housing value bubble (they were causing) would just keep on expanding and they could make money turning it over. Sorta like futures but a whole lot riskier, but they were too stupid/greedy to realize it.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by walt501
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by walt501
And every time someone gets a home mortgage, the mortgage deduction they take every year for up to 30 years is paid for with my money!

In other words, deductions are fair if YOU receive them, but not fair is someone else receives them.


WTF?

You clearly don't understand the difference between tax deductions and tax credits.

crazy


So tell me, do each reduce taxes owned to the Federal Government? If so, I'm picking up the tab, now aren't I?

Look what the mortgage interest deduction has done, distorted the the home market. How many "McMansions" have been built in the past 20 years that are lived in by 2 people solely for the purpose of maximizing the mortgage tax deduction?

If you're going to argue against the Volt tax credit, I'm going to lobby to take away your mortgage tax deduction because I rent. Game on.


I'm going to be nice and just say you are so out in left field, that we might not be able to pick you up with the Hubble telescope.

You honestly have no clue how large a mortgage would have to be to have the same effect on someone's taxes as a $7500 Volt tax credit. Never mind that the deduction has a debt cap anyways.

And because of AMT, it's highly unlikely that anyone that could afford that type of mortgage, would even get the pleasure of using the tax deduction, unlike the crackhead down the street who can use a $7500 tax credit, even if they didn't pay much more than that in taxes in the first place.

And who is the intellectual retard who told you that McMasions sprouted up in the past 20 years because of the mortgage interest deduction? Please tell me you heard that from a drunk and didn't think that up all by yourself.

Because of interest rates the past decade, the effect of the mortgage interest deduction is almost negligible in relation to the average person's tax bill as opposed to the effect it had 25+ years ago. No one ran out and bought McMansions in the past 20 years because of something that has existed for 99 years. They built McMansions because of low interest rates allowing them to build more house for less money.



[Linked Image]



Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864
Originally Posted by walt501
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by walt501
And every time someone gets a home mortgage, the mortgage deduction they take every year for up to 30 years is paid for with my money!

In other words, deductions are fair if YOU receive them, but not fair is someone else receives them.


WTF?

You clearly don't understand the difference between tax deductions and tax credits.

crazy


So tell me, do each reduce taxes owned to the Federal Government? If so, I'm picking up the tab, now aren't I?

Look what the mortgage interest deduction has done, distorted the the home market. How many "McMansions" have been built in the past 20 years that are lived in by 2 people solely for the purpose of maximizing the mortgage tax deduction?

If you're going to argue against the Volt tax credit, I'm going to lobby to take away your mortgage tax deduction because I rent. Game on.


A tax credit doesn't do away with the tax owed. You still have to pay that tax, it's now you can pay it in pieces over an extended time.

I got the 7500 credit for my house when I bought it. I now pay that back 500 bucks a year.

My tax credit is paid for by ME not by you.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Turdlike, by default.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by HugAJackass


A tax credit doesn't do away with the tax owed. You still have to pay that tax, it's now you can pay it in pieces over an extended time.

I got the 7500 credit for my house when I bought it. I now pay that back 500 bucks a year.

My tax credit is paid for by ME not by you.


There is a difference I believe in these green tax credits (like the Volt), and the first time home buyer etc., tax credits.

The Volt tax credit or solar tax credits get lopped off your taxes owed. The are a net effect. Deductions on the other hand, like the interest deduction reduces your effective income, not your tax owed. Therefore it is only worth (usually) like 25% of what a tax credit is, and that's if you get to use it all after AMT hits you.


[Linked Image]



Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 1
How many Volts have been sold? Around 7000 at last count.

How many here take a deduction for your mortgage?

It's time for the mortgage interest deduction to go away because I'm tired of paying for it.

See what happens when you complain about one person's deduction?

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
You don't pay for the mortgage deduction.

Stop trying to compare an apple to a road apple.


[Linked Image]



Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

559 members (12344mag, 204guy, 1234, 2500HD, 10gaugeman, 1badf350, 63 invisible), 2,552 guests, and 1,204 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,193,812
Posts18,516,515
Members74,017
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.096s Queries: 54 (0.023s) Memory: 0.9186 MB (Peak: 1.0310 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-16 21:41:20 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS