Home Forums Gear Horses and ATV's Buck

Did anyone catch the program on Dish the other night about Buck Brannaman?

Not too much about him,but part of the program had a palomino stud that some woman brought. A real nigthmare. She had raised it from bottle feeding. He back footed roped him and work a little and had his helper saddle and get on him.This horse was charging, striking, kicking, etc, trying to bite,the whole program.

After they unsaddled it, the helper was in the round pen doing a little work and the horse charge him, knocked him down and bit him on the head. Clean down to the bone requiring stitches.Nasty.

After that, they had the good sense to just drive it back into the trailer and callit quits.

Turns out,this woman had about 16-18 studs at home,not doing anything with them and the guy gave her the real what for. Of course she ended up crying, and said she would have to put the horse down.

This was an award-winning documentary that premiered at Sundance about a year ago then came to national theaters last summer. I saw it first here in our wonderful old-fashioned movie theater then purchased a DVD. It's a very good film. Could have been done better, but good just the same.
I first got a report on the film from my friend Charley, the saddlemaker and horse clinician who is a friend of Buck's. Charley told me about the palomino stud. My first thought was: "I know that woman!" Turns out this was a different woman. But some years back I pastured some yearlings and two-year-olds for a guy who said he was in a breeding program with a lady. It was the lady who came to pick them up. She told me she owned (get ready for this) THIRTEEN STALLIONS OF THIRTEEN DIFFERENT BREEDS.
When it came time to jump these loose horses into her trailer (they were not halter-broke) I told her not to step in front of them because they were likely to turn around and come back the first time or two.
Sure enough, we took them down an alley, they got to the big gooseneck and all turned around. This lady -- she was in her late 40s or early 50s and weighed about 120 pounds -- stepped in front of them and coaxed: "No babies, no babies. Turn around, babies."
Well, you guessed it. They treated her like a pinball. When I picked her off the ground she was dazed but unhurt.

I don't mean to offend any women here,but those type drift in and out of the horse world and God must surely look out for them.

She should put the horse down and she can thank herself for that. hard to imagine she had enough sense to know it. people in the breeding business with no more understanding than they look so cute when their babies should really reconsider.

I worked ten years as an Animal Control Officer in the City of Calgary. We were also Inspectors under the Stray Animals Act. If there was loose livestock in the city, we handled it. You would not believe how many horses I handled that had never been halter trained or transported in a trailer. We did have some rodeos.

I remember being thanked by a woman for capturing her foal (1-2 years old) during rush hour. She did a double take when she realized it was wearing a halter and was snubbed up to a fence post(My trailer hadn't arrived yet. My dispatcher had started calling livestock owners in the area and found her.)She asked "How did you get a halter on it, it's never been halter trained?"

I didn't answer her, because I didn't want to tell her that it had very nearly been fatal to the foal. As the foal (mom was easy to catch)ran up and down the ditch of a narrow, heavily travelled road, it was roped and snubbed to a post. The foal kept running and hit the end of the rope, causing it to flip on it's back. The lariat had cinched down very tight, (think the neck 1/3 normal diameter)and I couldn't get the hondo to release. The foal had passed out and I was digging out my pocket knife to saw through the rope when the hondo was released and the foal was finally able to take a big gasp of air. When he recovered sufficiently, he stood quietly next to mom.

Awww, memories! Many rodeos with untrained horses.

Like saddlesore, I don't mean to offend the fairer sex, but I was contacted a few days ago by a writer from Boston who is pursuing a story about the "feminization of the horse industry." She and I will talk later this week. Anyway, she was alerted to the possibility of this story when she went to her local feed store to buy feed for her two donkeys and realized the feed was now packaged in 40lb bags rather than 50 lb. bags. The feed store owner told her this was happening because the majority of horse owners was now female and the smaller bag was easier for them to handle. Not sure how deep that goes, but it is an interesting concept.

I have the movie here at home but haven't watched it yet, but my wife liked it. We worked for a while at a ranch near Libby that is featured in the movie, the owner is a goood friend of Buck's. I didn't go for the hero worship that went on there for the man, but he is one hell of an impressive horseman.

Have seen the movie and read both the books. The movie was okay- telling the story of Buck Brannaman. Not much info on horse training ... more so on his people training. His first book "The Far Away Horses" is a decent read. "Believe", the second book is more geared to as was said above hero worship.

Have watched his horse training videos and they are informative. A very talented man who does not dwell too much on his rough upbringing....unfortunatly those who produce movies/books do dwell on his past.

Having attended clinics in the past, being the only guy is not all that uncommon. Seeing the make up of 4H and pony clubs the gals keeping the equestrian interest going is what keep the feed stores open. On the work or money side of the sport the guys show up in numbers.
The feminization of the sport/life style may be its saving grace. Like one sees in shooting sports numbers are important - gender not so much.

I think the 40lb bags have more to do with profit than lifting. Around here, Big R, the local fram store charges as much as 50 lb bags elsewhere. Figure it out and that is 20% more profit.

Sort'a like the 13 oz cans of coffee instead of 1 lb can.

On the same note, recently there was an article in Western Mule by a gal close to me, complaining about the dangers of high lines and she stated that everyone should just tie to a tree.( Like that is legal) Her problem was she had the drop lines too long. Then she commenced to expound on the attributes of an electric enclosure in the back country. Obviously never encountering a herd of elk, a moose, or a bear coming thru camp at night running all the stock thru the hot wire and to God knows where. Her back country was just west of Colorado Springs,west of Pikes Peak where there are a lot of those 40 acre ranchettes. Then ended it by saying,"if I can just educate one person into not injuring thier mules,I have done my job"
I figure the next article will be "it's for the kids"

Hope Ladymulerider will chime in.I know what she will say. That gal's the real deal.

I have the video here at home, the 'Mrs' enjoys it and has watched it twice, I agree with the hero worship comments.
We have horses and have been to two of Buck's clinics.

I thought the episode with the dangerous palomino was not necessary for the story, and Buck getting stiff with it's owner was just so much drama.

I purchased the video for the Mrs to watch whenever but for any one else, borrow or rent it (once would be enough).

Was this movie made before or after he had his wreck (horse training)?

I watched it on Netflix.

I liked that Buck was straight with that lady. How many folks would be frank with someone paying to come to their class?

The "horse ladies" are a menace. Many are also hoarders. And a lot of the clinicians are just as bad. They've trained some horses in an arena and are now cowboys from way back.

I'll bet the smaller feed bags are partly for profit. But I also know some horse hay dealers that want pretty green, lightweight bales. Because they are appealing to women.

Boy I see that a lot around these parts, I know one personally. 90% of the horse hoarders I know can't afford to keep one,yet alone a whole herd of them.

There was a family living up the road in a subdivision. The husband was elderly and the wife had a severe kidney disease. They kept three or four fillies in the corral and did nothing with them. Actually, weren't capable of doing anything with them. Then one Spring the husband went to town during our famous Bucking Horse Sale and purchased a stud horse that bucked in the sale -- obviously he did not buck well -- for $90 and brought him home and turned him in with the fillies. Fortunately, in the end, no one was hurt, but ...

The better clinicians have developed good people skills - the harder part of the gig according to the two that I have asked... He told that woman what she needed to hear in a manner that she listened to. No sugar coating - refreshing to hear in this pc age.

There are some things you can't sugar coat. That horse was going to kill somebody, it was only a matter of time.

I'm sure not denying that a lot of these clinicians know a lot about horse training. However, I think about 75%, maybe more, are entertainers. Hence the "People Skills". Brannaman alluded to this when he stated that in early days,he was just mimicing Ray Hunt and had to find his own niche.

Personal experience of mine. I met Pat Parellie back in the early 80's at Bishop Ca,when he was selling home made vidoes out of an extra rented stall and giving bridleless mule riding demonstrations. I still have some of those tapes and his training methods have taken a completely different path. He switched to horses as he was not making a living using mules.He also switched wives along the way.

About the same time,Meridith Hodges came on the scene,out of CA and established a mule training business near Loveland CO. Her only claim to fame was she was the daughter of Charles Schutz, of the Peanuts comic strip. She brought some good donkey stock with her and did in fact do some darn good mule breeding. She was one of the ones who really brought about the idea of breeding good mares to good jacks to get even bettr saddle mules. A concept that had taken hold in CA, but was a long time reaching CO.

I am a little bit older than her and have watched her progess thru the mule breeding, training, and promotion of mules. She is no doubt, one of THE authoritive voices on the subject now days.

However in the mid 80's I sent a darn good walker mule for her to finish out as I was traveling a lot that year and my wife needed a classier mule to continue her competitions. The mule cost $1200 and the training was $600/month for 3 months.(Lot of money for us back then.) The mule came back a bucker, laid my wife up for 6 months with a smashed leg and ended her riding career.The mule ended up with an outfitter and the 1st time out he put a gal on that was bucked off and had to be air lifted out.

I tell this because Meridiths training techniques have reversed about 180 degrees since then and she puts a lot more emphasis on gettng inside the mules head.

I have found this to be true of a lot of these clinicians today and think that many of the younger ones getting into it will fall into the same category. Not that they are wrong, but there is no way of being in the busines for 5 years or so that the person is going to come across all the different problems of a lot of different horses(or mules. Basic principals will apply, but each animal is a case unto itself. Throw the mule equation into it and it is more so.

Combine that little bit of experience with these gals who think ther horses are thier babies and you have real recipe for disaster.

A few years ago I helped a friend of mine running some basic horse skills training weekends. The first weekend I worked with him we had a woman bring a four year old thoroughbred in a brand new trailer, towed by a brand new truck, with all brand new gear.
She had never had anything to do with horses but decided that she liked them and wanted to ride so she spent more money than I made in two years getting the one she thought looked nicest and all the new gear.
She was a danger to herself because she had no idea and really didn't want to listen to anyone. She bought the horse right from the track, the guy who sold it to her told her it's no good for racing, and sold it to her for $25000.
By lunchtime on the first day I told her the best thing she could do would be to put the horse down and adopt a child because if she kept treating the horse like a baby it would end up hurting her. She made us load her horse in her trailer and took it home, two weeks later she ended up in hospital after the horse reared and struck her in the head.

People in the industry also need to take responsibility for a lot of the disasters that happen because it's them who sell horses to a lot of these stupid owners without any thought for anything except making money.

I really don't see how selling a horse makes someone responsible for a new owners lack of common sense.

For whatever reason people that own horses seem the least likely to accept good advice about how to do something better.

We agree there Richard.There are no prerequistes for buying and owning a horse.Sort of like kids,lot'as folks should not have them but they do.

Cause they know better until they get hurt, then they are all ears.

I will say this about the buying and selling.

I have sold quite a few mules in my days.Some I bought as mature mules,most I bought as weanlings or yearlings,raised and sold them as either green broke or finished.

I never sold one that I did not think was a good fit for the prospective buyer.Some of them got a little obstinate when I would not sell them the mule they wanted, but I didn't want it on my conscience if they got in a wreck.I had a lot less mules retuned that way. I always guaranteed that if the mule didn't work out, they could bring it back in 30 days or less and get thier money back.I never had to return any money.

One guy wanted a tall mule and I could not talk him out of it.So I found him a tall thorobred mule that was as gentle as a kitten. He turned it out on 80 acres of loco weed and in 6 months he called me to tell me I sold him a killer.I went down to his place and rode the mule which was completely bonkers, and then picked some loco weed, told the guy to take it to a vet and ask him what it does to equines.He never called me back, but I heard that he bad mouthed me to anyone that would listen.

Another time,I sold a nice little palomino mule to a gal that just had to have it.The mule was really nice and trained well,never offered to do anything bad and was a good fit for a novice rider.

She asked me to come to her place and look over the fencing etc. to see if I thought it was OK.I did and told her to leave the mule at my place until she had better enclosures.She would not have any of it,took the mule home. It got out that night and got killed by a car. Such a shame as it was one of the best dispositioned mules that I had..

You just can't forsee all the problems that may come down the pike.

Discovering for yourself that you only know enough to be dangerous should be a humbling realization. Taking that humility and striving to learn more - a clinic or mentor - is a giant step upward. It usually takes a good knock to the pride(or body) to get started.

DanH, One thing I have learned that when working with mules a person had best let thier ego and pride at the gate.

What I'm getting at is the fact that in this instance the new owner was sold a horse that the seller knew was a problem horse, the seller knew the buyer had no experience at all and that selling that particular horse to that person would result in problems and probable injury.
The buyer is not holding a gun to your head forcing you to sell to them.

Personally when I have sold a horse to someone I have done everything in my power to ensure that both horse and owner are suitable, I feel I owe that to the horse as much as to the new owner.
A horse like that particular one I would probably have turned into pet food rather than sell it to someone like her.


I'm not saying the new owner held no responsibility for their stupidity in buying a horse they would be unable to handle, but I still think the seller has to take some responsibility for the situation as well.

Saddlesore I read your posts and we agree on alot.



Maarty, Here, the "save the horsey" people have taken that option away from us. I agree that theres plenty of them that belong in a can. Instead unwanted, illmannered, and the just down right dangerous horses get passed along. Hoefully they end up in some rescue promoting that crap.

Saddlesore - I have a Ruger #1 with glue holding the stock together to remind me about pride and mules. The bruises healed up nicely.

A good mule is on my want list....

Learning enough to know a good mule when I see one is hard in Ak. where they are scarce. Good ones in particular

Sounds like you have at least ONE mule on yer schitlist, too......

The fault was all mine. New mule to one of the "partners, So it had been with this particular group of horses for about 10 days. I was a beginning rider, poorly fitting snaffle bit, and swithched pack horses part way through the trip. Just to make sure to get all the mistakes over with- was following the dominant mare of the bunch that kickes. Later that season the mule did much better.....or I learned from the two trees I hit.

I saw a horse lady get picked up by the boob and tossed by a very large quarterhorse stud. We warned her not to go near the studd, and told her that a stud horse was one of the most dangerous animals on the plannet...she wanted to pet him.

Respect. It all comes down to respect. It seems every year a tourist in Yellowstone Park is hurt or killed for trying to pet a bison. Others approach bears. A few years back a farmer who knew nothing about bison took some private bison in from a guy in Utah. They escaped the first night. Three ended up on us. Eighteen months later we ended up eating two of them. The farmer -- with the help from the owner who utilized a wildlife professional, a guy who travels the globe darting wildlife -- eventually got a handful back including a bull. The farmer started feeding the bull with a bucket of grain. One morning, innocently enough, the bull put a horn clear through the guy's thigh. Studs should never be underestimated. A lady neighbor of ours once road out with her husband to look at their mare bunch. The stud charged, got the woman by the thigh and lifted her out of the saddle and tossed her like a rag doll. Only the fact that she was wearing shotgun chaps saved her from having a huge hole ripped out of her leg.

Worked buffalo enough for cutting practice to know that I do not want to try to raise the dang things.
We had a freind back home that at thirteen rode out into a pasture with a stud and mare's. The stud dragged her off her horse by the ankle, biting all the way through bone. She escaped by crawling under the fence. Her ankle had to be rebuilt using bone and cartilage from other part's of her body.

people do not understand how dangerous horses can be. i can't tell you how many times i've told someone to quit feeding one of my horses from their hand or to quit kissing the thing. next day they're doing the same thing. lucky they still have lips

Had a big palimino try to bite me in the back of my neck when I bent over to clip the breast collar to the cincha. Felt his teeth graze across my skin and ducked lower. Dropped back and kicked him in the chest as hard as I could. He never tried any antics with me after that but he did get my sister on the neck and drew blood. That horse was all business and you treated him like all business. No lovey dovey, hugs and kisses with that one. Didn't want any thing to do with it.

Pat, your palomino is a pile-o'-meano.

I have a nice two-year-old with a trainer presently and visited him this morning. This young trainer has a nice sorrel six-year-old that be bought for $800. A woman owned him, had him started, then was scared of him so she only fed him and led him until he was spoiled. He took a bite out of someone just the other day.

Horses are like handguns. You shouldn't just run out and buy one and think you are armed. Some training required.

Pat imo that was the right reaction, as long as it's immediate. everytime you're with a horse you're teaching them something, whether you mean to or not. people that feed a horse from their hand are teaching that horse they get rewarded to bite at a person's hand.

I wouldnt say he was mean, just not very personable. He was a riders horse, and a lot of horse also. When you threw a leg over him he was all about covering ground.

Had a horse kick at me or my horse in the back country of Montana last year. He missed the horse and caught my foot. Till we got to the overlook there was no sense in clubbing on him because he already forgot what he did 15 minutes ago.

In some instances the hand gun will provide the best training!

Too many nice horses nowday's to be messing with dink's or rang-a-tang's. And I have to tell ya guy's, it's not alway's the girl's that spoil their horses. Ive been around more than one pocket pony owned by a man. One such experience was out in a herd looking for a possible purchase. I was so uncomfortable with all the close scrutiny my wife and I were getting, and the owner got a little miffed when I had finally had enough and drove his horses off. Needless to say, we shopped elsewhere.

I guess I have been around both types. I have found that horses seem to get a lot pushier if you hand feed them vs mules,but I bet mules can also.
I'm down to just a few mules now, both have been hand fed. One is about 30, the other 11-12.Neither are pushy or bites.It sure helps up in the hills as sometimes I just get off and need to do something.I can call or whistle and they are right there.Really helps in the dark.

I have found that I can do a lot with treats in thier early life and can then fix the problem if one exist afterwards.

The only real problem I can remember is a mule that got hooked on Beechnut chew.He would sneak up and pull the bag out of your back pocket and run off with it.He would eat bag and all before you caught him.He'd sure rip your pocket off if he could not get it out.He never bothered about anything else though.

The neighbor had jenny donkey that he kept in his orchard down outside of Albuquerque to keep the kids out. She would sure sneak up on you and bite hard.She didn't want any treats, she was just mean.I also had a big percheron mare that bit me on the shoulder so hard she picked me up.We had rented her and the old sheep farmer owner was there. I couldn't do anything. On the way up the mountain, I had to tighten the cincha and she turned around and bit me on the teat.Then I could do something and I smacked her across the head with a 3" limb.She jumped around and fell off the trail but that old gal never offerd to bite me again.

This following photo is a herd of about 20-30 head that a young fellow ran on a 10,000+ acre BLM pasture up in NW CO. They would come around if they saw us and I was more than bit nervous riding across the big open when they barreled down on me. Good thing they never did anything but mill around and neither did my two mules.I found out later that the fellow would bring treats up once a week or so to call them in so he could check on them. They kept hanging around camp and the red roan mare on the left looking at the cameras kept wanting to run off my mules.

I think with some horses,you can get away with hand feeding.Probably the majority not, without doing some reinforcing of what is acceptable.It probably has a lot more to do with all the other things that one does that has big affect on them to getting spoiled. My molly wants scratched about the ears every time I go into the corral,but she knows she has to wait unitil I ask her over before she gets it.There is no pushing.

Riding through a herd of strange horses can be an experience. Carrying a bullwhip and riding a horse that is broke to it will let you move a lot of critters out of your way.

My geldings are very polite and civil when taking carrots from the hand. Their disposition in general is polite and civil towards humans,not so much to each other. The mare won't touch any thing from the hand except hay.

i can't think of any good reason to teach a horse or mule to bite at your hand much less your ass unless you're going to give it to someone you don't like.
if you feel a need to give them carrots, oats or whatever they will find it just as easy in their feeder or a bucket and they'll know you gave it to them. that's strictly a human thing. you never see horses taking treats to each other. in the language they speak it's not done.

Dropping the carrot or apple slice in the bucket is the proper way,and feeding by hand is a bad habit of mine. I don't make a habit out of feeding that stuff. only when it sits in the frige too long.

I am guilty of feeding the occasional treats - I give a call when doing it. It has served me well when they have escaped from their confines.

I use a bucket of grain, the mare don't know what carrots are and won't try one.

I need to feed bran and/or psylliam (sp) daily due to the soil here. I usually mix in carrot peels, potato peels, apple peels or cores, whatever there is that day. Pretty much any part of fruit or veggie that isn't going to make my table i run past them. watermelon rhine is their absolute favorite.

I have an old mule,some where around 30.He's done everything.A few times I loaned him out to some hunter with a young kid in tow that needed to a pack an elk or deer out. All I tell them is to bring a bag of cookies and he will follow them anywhere. I have never had any problems with those instructions. Whe the kid gets back to camp,he usually had big grin on his face for sure.

His two annoying habits are that he will come around you and slip his head under your arm and stand there,or if loose around camp,he will come and stick his head in the tent.

If we are out hunting for day and we stop for lunch, he hangs around me to get his share of the peanut butter crackers. After he gets his package, he goes off and grazes.

As I have mentioned before on this forum,I usually have a box of donuts or jelly donuts that before we leave to go hunting,I go down to the corral and me and the two mules share them.

I think all this is dependant on the particular animal.I have had a few mules with the same disposition, I had them 25 yrs or so. A couple are buried on my place. If they are taught to repect the humans space,you generally won't have a problem.30 years + ago,I had a little 1/4 horse cross that was the same way.He's buried here too.

When I am with other hunters,they are running around chasing mules and horses to catch them. Mine are standing there waiting to go.Or if they are high lined at night, come the time to get tied, they usually mosey over to the high line and stand where they know they belong to get fed.

This may be all wrong on the equine training aspect, but it works or me. I don't know about horses in that repect as there hasn't been one on the place for about 12 years. Mules like to be partners in the deal whereas horses don't seeem to need that. That is not to say that I have not had mules where thier best job would have been inspecting the inside of a dog food can.One truism I have found is that each animal is different than all the others.

My geldings don't come to expect treats, If I show up with some then they get them. Actually, the ungrateful devils are in for some apples. Have some laying in the fridge for over a month so they can feast on those.

I try not to feed a horse out of my hand after they're yearlings and I've never owned a horse that cared for apples, carrots, or sugar cubes.

How about beer?

or bisquits?

Beer and biscuits? For your horses? And I thought my social life was weak.

There use to be an old mule down at Turkey Creek Ranch on Ft Carson,CO.I think it was the last remaining mule the army had,but not sure.It could take ab ig dixi cup of beer, one of those 16+ounces and grip it with it's lip, turn it up and swill down the entire contensts of beer with hardly spilling a drop.

Fattist thing you ever saw and it would hound anyone that had any type of cup in thier hand. Pretty obnoxious old guy.

Fattist thing you ever saw and it would hound anyone that had any type of cup in thier hand. Pretty obnoxious old guy.


SS - Oh, you're talking about the mule! I thought you'd added a new signature line!

At least the horse I was talking about drank Miller Lite.

I guess that did sound a lot like me.

Vince

We went to look at a house recently, there were a couple of horses there and I called out to them. the mare trotted up to the gate and when I went to scratch her she turned and bit at my hand, she got a solid punch to the shoulder that turned her away. The owners said she only does it when you haven't got a treat for her and I told them they had made her into a spoiled and potentially dangerous animal.

We had a horse when I was a kid that would steal bottles of beer, Dad found that out after a day of fencing when he put a full bottle down so he could go for a leak. We got blamed for taking his beer.
Later dads mate put his bottle down and dad caught the horse picking the bottle up in his lips, tossing his head up and down till he'd drunk it all then he shook his head and sent the bottle sailing into the bushes.




I can't actually remember dad apologizing for blaming us, might have to hit him up about that.

At least around here it is also bad manners to go petting or interacting with any animal that isn't your own or that you didn't get permission too first.

Normally I wouldn't but in this case the horses were staying on the property and we (as tenants) were to be responsible for making sure the horses were cared for.

Our horses back east here are for the most part hobbies or just pets. Your horses are your lively hood out there. You don't need, or can't afford to deal with bad habits they might have picked up from someone. If some one wants to pet or brush my geldings I let them do it because they enjoy human interaction. I tell inexperienced people to steer clear of the mare though,she is not for inexperienced hands.

Buck is a great movie because it highlights the new style of horsemanship. On Dad's ranch people used snubbing posts and other severe devices. Had a roommate between wives in Denver 30 years ago that later had a gf that used Branaman as a trainer in MT. The guy studied with Buck and has become a famous international horse trainer- Frank Bell lives in now in New South Whales, Aus.

I had mules for 10 years and wanted to step up and bought one from far away and spent a lot of money. He had no foundation and over-reacted in the mountains bucking me off twice. Hurt bad and pretty much gave up riding at 60.

People do not realize what they are getting themselves into. Over confidence cost me big time. I miss the critters and mess around with neighborhood donkeys. If I ever go on a long trip it will be on foot leading two donkeys.

The lady in the movie must surely have some issues with Daddy or previous husbands/boyfriends. She personifies "California stupid."

I like the natural horsemanship and wish I had learned more sooner. Owning mules makes you a trainer because they are so smart that they either get better or worse in your care. Working with mules taught me patience and persistence. Sometimes it required intense self-examination and looking hard in the mirror. I will always hang around livestock people because they are taught to be honest by horses and especially mules. A mule trainer generally makes a good horse trainer, but the reverse is often not true. Cheers for Ears. Ride with Pride.

The off season for riding here is way longer than the on season. Different training videos and shows (rfdtv and HRTV) are a good distraction and one can on occasion pick up some interesting new tip or bit of knowledge.

http://www.giddyupflix.com/ is like netflix, but has different trainers and other equine related dvds.

Dan,
There is no bad weather only bad clothes. AK is tough that way.

Had a Lewis and Clark party a few years ago and cooked buffalo in a Dutch oven and planked salmon over a fire. My Dad was in town. We partied, went in the house and then he asked "What is that campfire doing?" We went back out about midnight under a full moon drinking some good whiskey. My good black mule Judith was watching me from her pen. I put a halter on and brought her to the campfire. She finished the leftover appetizers, and then I cracked open a Coors Light and she drank it out of my hand. That was the night I partied with Dad and my favorite mule.

On a normal year we ride all winter - not off the roads or much outside of the little arena This year was lots of snow followed by rain followed by below zero...The crust was causing abrasions on the horses legs... Now it is ice with a skiff of fresh snow on top. Spring is coming - the snow has settled to wher the top two rungs of the powder river panels are showing!

Dan,
We have heard of your tough winter. I used to live in Wyoming and understand the problems that creates.

Is there any hope of curing an occasional bucker?

Ended up with one that has good breeding, conformation and maybe a good mind.

He is intolerant of inexperience or inattentiveness (I am working on overcoming both of these traits) and has a no nonsense ejector button when activated..

On what occasions does he quit you?

Both times in the arena. Once during the warm up prior to team penning and once during a run cutting a cow back.

He was brought by because he bucked the last two owner off also.

Blood work showed a extreme thiamine deficiency when we first got him. To the point of muscle atrophy. So muscle pain may have been what started him doing it. Treatment and brewers yeast have got him back to normal and he has gained around 100 pounds. Still lean though.

Both dirt baths started with me asking for a right turn. Did a lot of turns so don't know what was different - maybe my balance.

He gets lots of ground work and is very light and mindful, but I think he never really "gives it up".

Back in about 1969, and old cowboy by the name of Harry Tucker out of Texas hunted elk with us.He was close to 80 at the time,and brought a nice looking buckskin gelding to ride along with all his other stock. He could never handle it first thing in the morning so he showed us youngsters how to throw it down. We could then get a bit in it's mouth and let it back back up to saddle it up.
Then one of us would have to climb on and buck it out in the dark. It didn't buck real hard ,but would do so every moring.After that,Harry would climb on and ride all day with no problems.

Any horsetrainer worth his salt would point to foundation training on the ground, followed by a lot wet saddle blankets.

I've found most horses that aren't outlaws buck for one of two reasons, either scared or hurt. If its a cutting horse, could be both. May have gotten over worked as a baby doesn't look forward to the the pressure, or maybe something hurts when he works. does he only buck when working?

He was bought for a younger kid. Believe he was fine on trail rides and hunting trips.

At clinics when pushed he would say No with flare and throw a fit once in awhile. He pretty much has tossed off everyone that has owned him. He was dropped of here to do what we wanted with him. (Iditarod food)

Did the flank strap and tires on him with a trainer and said trainer took him to team penning and pushed him hard to get him to buck, spurs low and back etc. No buck and exceeded behavior expectations.

As I type this I am wondering if the problem lies with being in an arena/crowd setting? Will check Thanks

I have this idea that every horse has a job meant for them, and maybe this guy's job doesn't include arena work. If he's good on trails and hunting trips, keep him doing those jobs.
I'd also say a horse can to a large degree sense what he can and cannot get away with, and that may have something to do with his behavior with a trainer vs a kid or timid rider. Cutting trainers in general burn up a lot of horses pushing them too hard as babies. Give him another job and see how he works on that.

Thanks for the tips Richard.

Its my pleasure Dan. I really enjoy horses and welcome the opportunity to talk about themn as there was the day I lived for them. Thank you for being kind enough to engage me in conversation.

Finally got to watch the movie "Buck". Wife and I rented through her Amazon account and streamed it.

We really enjoyed it.

Just now saw this thread. Thanks, Saddlesore for your kind words... from you, that is very meaningful.

Never have met Buck, did meet and visit with Ray Hunt. I like the approach of both from the standpoint of common sense and working for lightness.

Watched the Buck movie and have the book. Related to it quite a bit as I grew up with a dad that was not only lethal, and dangerous, he was unpredictable and that is the hard part. Enjoyed the movie and book. As shown, you do better to let go and move on and have a good life.

The lady with the stallions in the movie had real problems, and the horse was made into exactly what he had become, by the way he was handled and not being gelded, is my guess.

As far as women and horses, sad to say there appears to be a real overload of ladies who did not grow up around any livestock, and have a lot of unresolved issues about nurturing and treat these equine like toy poodles, and they get hurt.

There are some men like that, but an amazing number of women and girls. All that is ok kinda when you are 5 years old and all, but women need to understand that loving the horses does not in any way make the horses love (and not hurt) you.

The part that bugs me to death is they will ask for help, but sull up and fluff their feathers if you make any comment that might mean they have over fed, over loved, and underworked their horses. I don't know when it became politically incorrect to state that a horse needs training and correction, and mileage .

Buck's new series "7 clinics" is interesting. Several times he tells people what they don't want to hear. The secret to good teachers in my opinion is the ability to tell people what they need to hear with out it being a bad experience for the individual. Buck handles that fine and is interesting to listen to.
http://giddyupflix.com/ is like netflix but is geared to people interested in horses. It is around $11 a month or so - something to watch on the cold/rainy/soon to be snowy nights.