Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire A Family of Cartridges

When the ammo factories go to load a cartridge, they first set a maximum average peak pressure that for the sake of safety from liability suits they don't plan to go beyond. Then they use whatever powder will about fill the case and won't produce more than that pressure.

That box of .30-30, that box of .30-40, and that box of .45-70 on the gun-shop shelf may be destined to come to life in Ruger No. 1s, but you can be sure that they'll be loaded to be safe in 94s, Krags, and trap-doors. Definitely lower pressures, irrespective of what those powders are capable of producing in other cartridges and stronger breeches.

Take a look at what SAAMI says � http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

Thus the powder pantry is full of stuff that may well "burn better" at significantly higher pressures. In the low-pressure cartridges, they do the jobs that are assigned to 'em.

Performance is what counts, not theoretical neatness or purity.





When Joe Louis fought (IIRC) Billy Conn, a number of our bigoted friends in Appalachia felt that Joe'd been champ "long enough" � that it was time for us to have a new (white) champ. They weren't happy when Louis knocked Conn out in about the thirteenth round.

"If Louis hadn't knocked him out," one of my pro-Conn friends said heatedly, "Conn woulda won!"

Conn was indeed ahead on points, but the KO trumped 'em all.

The rifle that Joe has is the third prototype. The first two were disappointing � twists way too tight. Bullets blew-up just ahead of the muzzle. Puffs of gray nothing.

The Greenhill equation called for a seven-inch or eight-inch twist � obviously too tight, as totally unsatisfactory field performance showed all too clearly.

So with this third one, I swallowed hard, screwed my daring down white-knuckle tight, and had Greg rifle it for one turn in nine inches.

Joe's results seem to justify the risk. (I wonder, of course, how stable these bullets will remain at loooooooooooong ranges.)

I was just a kid then - since have watched that contest more than once (old film). Conn was noticeably smaller - a light-heavyweight - but a better boxer who made Louis pay for 12 rounds (today's championship length). Then Louis finally nailed Conn with a heavy bomb - maybe like the 75g AMAX at 3600++ fps?

I'd bet that 1-9" works great even waaay out there. My .223AI is a 1-9". Even with the .223AI's significantly lower speed the 75gr AMAX flys true as far as I have ever shot.

IIRC, the hundreds of cases that I gave Joe are from two production runs, months or more apart � which gave Bruce a second run at "improving" the first batch.

IIRC, he said that he'd made the head of the case stronger � how, I don't know.

Those cases are probably "right on" in exterior dimensions and vary all over the place in interior dimensions.

In all my computer simulations, I've used an onager estimation of gross capacity.

I'd like to see what that cartridge can do with selected cases carefully formed and trimmed from good .25-06 brass.

By the bye, Paul � without looking it up, do you know Joe Louis's real surname?

HINT � it wasn't "Louis." That was his middle name � Joe Louis ****** � his mama didn't want him to be boxing, so he used a "stage" name to keep her from knowing what he was doing.

IIRC, the .303 British won its great reputation for its long-range stability by staggering around all over the place before it "went to sleep" and delivered the bacon way out there.

Yeah - knew it even then - Joe Louis Barrow. And another guy that beat up on Louis for a while - Jersey Joe Walcott - was born and raised as Arnold Cream. Best fighter I ever saw in person was Sugar Ray Robinson - and his real name was Walker Smith. I saw him on a train between Philly and NYC once and. although he was fighting at 160 lbs. at the time, he had to be almost 6 ft. tall and looked BIG.

Maybe like a .220H - possibly performs bigger than it is?

Yeah, but that's probably because of those pink nipples.

I would too,.......let's get the hell outta' blind alleys and quit azzing around with off spec brass !

* Find a COMMONLY available lot of brass,.......in 25-06, and FORM some .220 Howell

The numbers and the reamer I've got in front of me say this will WORK.

Still WAITING for a callout on what aggragate neck thicknesses look like on the "hassle brass"

....guess everybody's too busy extrapolating, and designing another reamer, to actually sit down and MEASURE some necks.

We're not building a space shuttle here, boys.

GTC

Joe's loads in his .220 Howell have already shown that to be so.

Documented.

In the presence of witnesses.

The next step, I think, is to cajole RCBS, Hornady, Forster, or Redding to produce forming dies for making .220 Howell cases from good .25-06 brass.

....and FWIW, I'll BET that if I had that set of custom dies that accompanied the 3rd prototype that I could have some brass that properly fits that chamber up and running in no time flat.

At this point, using the term "factory brass" seems more than a bit odd.

To my knowledge nobody's even TRIED working some 25-06 yet.

So, we don't really KNOW, ....do we ?

GTC

GTC

I'm not getting any real feedback on that.

Good to hear, though.

GTC

)

Two or three passes on ANNEALED necks would be my own call,
.....real Imperial Wax, this time, NO substitutes.

GTC

Was done to quite an extent last weekend - brass inconsistency determined for certain, and so inconsistent as to disable any generality report. Did see some developed inner/outer neck dimensions that worked in that one chamber, and the rifle itself seemed excellent.

Predicting that one will be a very fine shooter of the 75g. Even with less than optimum conditions/setup and a first-squeeze shooter (me, on that VERY light set trigger), it sat right down close to zero point. I don't think that one was chrono'ed. Sure adnire that beautiful rifle.

Once I get the working .220H rifle set up, intend to start from a good .25/06 case and form to .220H. Won't start that until I have the rifle ready. Also will see what can be done in THAT chamber with some of this Bertram - but re-working that brass may prove not worth the time/effort.

Fun to be working with a cartridge designed by a friend - even if the guy who made the custom brass wandered from design specs.

Kinda like calling Moochelle "the First Lady."


IIUC, Joe did a pretty good job making vinyl purses out of Bruce Bertram's sow's ears. I'm pretty sure that his final renditions are pretty close to what we'd get with form dies and selected .25-06 brass.

I think I'll take a die blank and cut a chamber in it with the reamer here,....then dink the top end of it around to accept bushings. A good Chro-Mo die will make THOUSANDS of cases , without being hardened, if the process is kept reasonably clean.

and , yup, it IS fun.

GTC

I do believe you are on the right track. I have made bushing dies and stepped necks down it two steps with great successes in the past when taking 6BR to 22BR.

I'm going to cut the die here, ....and than see if I can't coerce Bristoe into fitting the bushing end, he'll have access to better tolerances on his end.

Wilson Bushings ?

I've done more than a few for big straightwalled coal burners, but never for a BN case.

Do the bushings "Float", or are we talking real serious fitup ?

GTC

I used the Redding TIN coated but have also used carbide drill bushings. For necking down a little floating works well. the rounded edges on the bushings will center the operation. I don't see why you could not do it yourself plenty well enough to float a bushing .010 or so.

In my hand dies for loading I locked the bushings in with a light slip fit.